How many door knobs are too many door knobs? How do you bring mixed successes into D&D? And are the players not concerned that they stumbled into an international incident? All that and more on the Afterparty!
Check out the Conversation Pit channel on our Patreon discord and keep sending in questions!
Dive into our ship combat mechanics, classes from Mage Hand Press, the countries of Verda Stello, and other changes we’ve made for C3 HERE!
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Cast & Crew
- Game Master, Co-Producer: Eric Silver
- Co-Host (Umbi), Co-Producer, Sound Designer, Composer: Brandon Grugle
- Co-Host (Chamomile Cassis), Co-Producer: Julia Schifini
- Co-Host (Troy Riptide), Co-Producer: Amanda McLoughlin
- Theme Song: Lyrics by Eric Silver, music by Brandon Grugle. Vocals by Brandon Grugle, Lauren Shippen, Julia Schifini, Roux Bedrosian, Eric Silver, Tyler Silver, and Amanda McLoughlin. Available for purchase here.
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Join the Party is an actual play podcast with tangible worlds, genre-pushing storytelling, and collaborators who make each other laugh each week. We welcome everyone to the table, from longtime players to folks who’ve never touched a roleplaying game before. Hop into our current campaign, a pirate story set in a world of plant- and bug-folk, or marathon our completed stories with the Camp-Paign, a MOTW game set in a weird summer camp, Campaign 2 for a modern superhero game, and Campaign 1 for a high fantasy story. And once a month we release the Afterparty, where we answer your questions about the show and how we play the game. New episodes every Tuesday.
Transcript
Amanda: Hey, hi, hello, and welcome to the Afterparty. Players, how are we feeling on this first leg of the Divine Labyrinth?
Julia: We heisted, and now we're doing a labyrinth. God, I just love D&D. So good, so good.
Brandon: I'm feeling divine, Amanda.
Julia: I'm not.
Amanda: Eric, how are you feeling? How's— how's all the entrapping you've been doing of us?
Eric: Good. Nothing's more fun than sending all of you out of the room. I really enjoy it.
Brandon: I know, it really is fun.
Eric: I also want to say that since I record in person with Amanda, we're here in the Multitude studio, she does leave the room when I'm doing the episodes with Julia. And—
Julia: Yup.
Eric: —then when I need to get her back— obviously with Brandon, I sent him a message. The thing that happens is that when I call Amanda in, she— because she's sitting— she's like 20 feet away from me, but there is a window in between me and her, she can see me.
Amanda: Oh, hey, Eric, soundproof glass.
Eric: It's soundproof— it's soundproof, for sure, but she can see me. So I knock on the window, and every time Amanda looks like she's in fourth grade, and her teacher told her to stop sharpening pencils so much.
Amanda: Yeah, it's— it's not fair, it's not proportional.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: It's— it's simp— it's—listen, that's on me.
Brandon: This is a little bit of a tangent here, but I wanted to sympathize with you, Amanda, because I realized the other day that I still have that impulse, because I was on the rooftop gardening and giving my crows peanuts, and I— we haven't— nobody knows—
Julia: Yes, you did.
Brandon: —that we give the crows peanuts, and I always at the back of my head, I'm like, "Is it annoying that there's peanut shells and/or birds everywhere to everyone?" And my neighbor came up, and she started chatting for me for a second. And I had to, like— I felt like I got caught giving peanuts to the birds.
Julia: Yes. Caught peanut-handed.
Amanda: You were like, "Oh, I was just snacking."
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: "Uh—"
Eric: "Uh, I wasn't skateboarding. Um, I was just using it, um, as— as a measure."
Amanda: "Just carrying it. Yeah."
Eric: "It was just—I'm just holding it."
Brandon: Yeah, yeah. And so I feel— still have that grade school feeling, you know? "Oh, shit, I broke a rule. I'm— I gotta— I have to move, I can't do anything else but move now."
Amanda: Yeah. I simply have to leave, yeah.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: Well, Brandon, you shouldn't live next to your middle school principal, that's on you.
Amanda: God. Can you imagine? You move into an apartment and the next door is like Mr. Llewellyn from middle school?
Eric: Shout out to Dr. Dowling, my elementary school teacher who was indicted by the police for stealing computers and the BOE fired him and all that stuff. Shout out to Dr. Dowling.
Julia: Woo.
Brandon: Yikes.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Well, guys, I'm excited to debut a new Patron feature, uh, here in the Afterparty.
Eric: Wel, hey, if you— you like hearing things about our personal lives—
Amanda: Yes.
Eric: — is— is the transition, you could have that.
Amanda: Eric, you're exactly right. Because we are starting something new and on Party Planning, which as you know, is our Patron-only podcast that we release every two weeks in audio and video form, an additional bi-weekly/fortnightly podcast from us, just for patrons. We're introducing a new kind of episode called—
Eric: The Conversation Pit, baby.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: The Conversation Pit.
Julia: Our mid-century modern of us.
Brandon: Ooh.
Eric: Every house should have one, but now our Patreon does.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Yup. Their shag carpet all over the place, and it feels like you can nap at any given moment. And this is of course— not of course. Now, you know for the first time. This is where you can ask us anything, about ourselves, our lives, sandwiches, our opinions on stuff. The kind of thing that— sometimes you ask very good questions for the Afterparties, but there's so much to talk about in the show that those questions are at the bottom of the list. And so now, if you're a patron, you can join the brand-new Conversation Pit channel in our Patron-only Discord starting today. And you can leave your questions for us there. And hey, that— that is the que— that is the queue, that is the line. Your— your questions are right there. Do it.
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: We're folding this into our content strategy that we've been doing on the Party Planning. So we're still gonna do, well, random other stuff that we do on Party Planning. We're gonna hopefully do more Conversation Pits episodes so y'all know more stuff about us. So if you're a patron, your questions will be considered first. However, if you do submit personal questions to us via social media, and also when we ask for Afterparty questions or you do ask personal ones and we don't get to them in Afterparty, they will be moved to that document, and you will be considered after the patron stuff or we will fold it in as well. Also, if you want to listen to this, the first episode that we do of this will end up on the full main feed. It won't be just the— the preview, we'll put up the full one up there.
Brandon: They got a whole episode, Eric?
Amanda: A full episode.
Eric: A full free episode about us.
Amanda: Yeah. And crisp—
Eric: People they know in their ears.
Brandon: That's such a deal.
Amanda: Crisp video.
Eric: Cerps
Amanda: Cerps video.
Eric: So cerps.
Amanda: Uh-hmm. It's gonna be great.
Eric: Yeah. So everyone can— everyone can— like, we'll put it public on Patreon, yeah, the video. So you guys— so everyone can watch the video, too.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah. I can't— Julia is 7' 4".
Amanda: No one knows.
Julia: You would be surprised. I seem so small, so full of anger.
Eric: And Victor Wembanyama is same height.
Amanda: Damn it, I was gonna say that.
Eric: No. Okay, you can say it.
Amanda: No, no, no.
Eric: No, you say it.
Amanda: No, no.
Eric: No, go ahead.
Amanda: No, you don't have to.
Eric: No, you're already doing it.
Amanda: Eric told me yesterday about Victor Wembanyama, who was the first draft pick last year and his— his proportions are very funny. His arms are very long.
Eric: He's very— he's very large. He's very large.
Julia: That's cool. I love that.
Amanda: Well, guys, I can't wait to meet all of you in the Conversation Pit in a few weeks' time. But in the meantime, lots to talk about with the end of the Boiling Reef Arc and the beginning of the Divine Labyrinth. So let's take our minds out of the maze that we are trapped in earlier to the conclusion of the heist and the reveal of that freaking door in Episode 25, Legends of the Boiling Reef III. Wow, this was a lot. And Eric, I just want to start with this question from Ceci, "How many doorknobs is too many?"
Julia: I would say there should be one doorknob, and any door that has more than one doorknob can go suck my ass.
Brandon: I think zero doorknobs, is all the—
Julia: I think everything should be push or pull.
Brandon: —all— yeah. Everything should be push or pull.
Amanda: Wow.
Eric: It's— yeah, the door has a handle on both sides so you don't know which one is pulling, which one is push, so that's the puzzle.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: Or it's one of those like farmhouse doors where the top can swing open, so you can like call your children in for dinner with a cowbell—
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: —then that's only the scenario where tune-ups, okay.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: That's a good point. I think three doorknobs is appropriate, it's a puzzle.
Julia: Well, we know that now.
Amanda: Alright.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Let's— let's drill down on this. This is from Savedman. "I'm curious, Eric. Did you expect the players to have such a hard time with the door?" What a read. "Also, what was your thought process for creating the ship, the crew, and the door? Unique pieces on all of it compared to what we've seen so far."
Brandon: Did he— hey, Eric, did you think we were that dumb?
Eric: It doesn't matter.
Brandon: Did you think we were that dumb?
Amanda: When we— when we jump through it and ended up in the ocean, which you did tell us we would do, and then we acted shocked. Was that bad for you?
Eric: It was really funny. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was really funny.
Amanda: Me, too. Me, too.
Eric: No, I mean, like, again, when you make puzzles, when you're GM-ing a game, you either have a very specific answer in mind, and the answer is like mechanical. You know, it's like a— it's like a video game puzzle, right? It's like— you know when— when you have to do like a real-life quiz in a video game, it's always like, "What the fuck? I'm not— I don't know how many number of Pokemon there are in the ghost gym. Like, I don't know why you're asking me this question." That's a refere—that's a reference to Pokemon Platinum. But it's more about, like, you have to do this series of things. It's more of like an action puzzle, right? It's not like an actual puzzle, puzzle. Or you just kind of set something up and you see what happens. So I was thinking like, you guys need to discover the knobs in the various ways that you did. And you were close, you just like didn't look at the door, at all.
Amanda: That's correct.
Eric: Which was the funny part.
Amanda: That's correct.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Brandon: I want to say this is like the second time in this campaign in which Eric has done a very traditional D&D puzzle, and we have failed miserably at it.
Amanda: I mean, the only D&D media I consume is this podcast, and occasionally, you know, others. But this is— I don't know. Like I— I have— my gameplay, you have seen it all, and the puzzles I solved were the puzzles Eric gives me. So—
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: —we're borrowing those traditional D&D puzzles, I'm like, "What?"
Brandon: I feel like this is like not a con, but like a long— a long thing coming, like where Eric was like, "I'm gonna spend like four years teaching these people to not expect the easy things, and then I'm gonna throw the easy things at them." And now, we're going to be like, "Alright, now we got to look for the third knob and we got—"
Eric: Well, if we— we would drill down on this, though. The— I guess "D&D puzzle" quote-unquote is doing an Investigation Check to find a secret door, the third knob, right?
Brandon: Right.
Eric: The— the— the Eric puzzle, it was the— was the brain thing, was the—
Amanda: Yeah.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: It was using— making sure that the revealed brain reflected off the thing.
Brandon: Hmm.
Eric: It just so happened that you did that already, but you didn't do the basic thing as well. I thought the hard thing would have been, "Oh, I need to drag an enemy over here to unlock it a la an iris scanner."
Brandon: Yeah, but isn't that also a D— classic D&D puzzle? Where like the light crystals in the wall thing? Am I making that up?
Eric: Yeah, but it was more like a— that was more like an action movie. I was comparing it to like an iris— like as an iris—
Brandon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric: —scan in— in a— in a—
Julia: Retinal scan.
Eric: Yeah, retinal scan. Now, Julia, I need to see how big— you have to get really engaged in something and your iris is gonna get really big.
Julia: I had to look at something beautiful.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Tell me why my brain just said, "More like a rectum scan."
Brandon: Oh, no, Amanda. Oh, no.
Eric: I— I don't know.
Julia: I don't know.
Eric: That's a real Dungeons and Daddies puzzle. That's different. So it was, like, kind of like— well, that's why I did three. It was like regular doorknob, more standard, make— make an Investigation Roll and then kind of like a action movie type thing, which I usually do.
Brandon: But my point is that the next puzzle, we're gonna get ready to look for the easy, classic solution and then we're gonna miss— now, we're gonna start missing the Eric puzzles and it's just a cycle—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: —that you've put us upon.
Eric: That's fine by me.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: Welcome to conflict, my friend.
Julia: That's why you have different players who have different solutions to these kinds of puzzles.
Brandon: That's why you have Julia who can think through puzzles, and me and Amanda who can sit there and be like, “I don’t know!”
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Brandon, I would like to push back and say someone paid $5 for a clue.
Julia: It wasn't me, though. Just want to say it wasn't me.
Eric: It wasn't Julia. Someone did pay fi— or instead, give your DM $5.
Julia: I think more DMs should demand money for easier puzzle.
Brandon: Money for services.
Amanda: Right?
Eric: Fair.
Amanda: Fair enough.
Eric: Fair.
Amanda: Here's a question from Collin Wade, "As a hive mind, do the other individuals and/or Audrey, the Rotten Queen herself feel pain when one member is attacked?"
Julia: Well, we don't know that these people are associated with Audrey, the Rotten Queen.
Brandon: We do not.
Amanda: We're not certain.
Eric: No.
Amanda: We're— we're simply supposing, and putting pieces together.
Julia: Yeah.
Brandon: The hive mind people on the boat?
Julia: I sniffed the air, I didn't get any necrotic kind of Audrey, the Rotten Queen smell when I did my Arcana Check.
Brandon: My takeaway was that these people were not a zombie folk.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: No.
Brandon: But— oh, well, Eric confirmed.
Eric: They're not, but I think that maybe this is just a general question about hive— a general question about hive minds.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah.
Amanda: And Audrey has a necrotic army of, you know, the undead, et cetera.
Julia: Right, but we don't know that they're like, you know, hive mind connected to Audrey.
Amanda: They're not LAN networked.
Eric: Right, they don't have an intranet.
Brandon: Alright, nerd Amanda.
Amanda: We had a very interesting explanation from someone in Discord about— about networking, which is great.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Brandon, don't you dare talk about all the IT professionals who love Join the Party.
Amanda: It's their Patreon pledge that's really— really driving the ship.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: I don't know if this is true or not, but I knew this Amanda— like 14-year-old Amanda at her house with, like, three other— four other people doing Halo LAN parties.
Julia: Absolutely not a thing that happened.
Amanda: I only faxed my Neopets zine to other teens on the internet. I did not do any local networking with IRL friends.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: I've never done a LAN party. That never happened. I think I got to the point where I had, like, friends who wanted to play video games with me, when Xbox Live was already going—going down.
Brandon: Right.
Eric: I did it on, like, Halo Two, and, like, shout out to Nick Springer. Shout out to all my other friends from high school who I played tons of Halo with.
Amanda: Ceci and I traded with our Gameboy Color link cables.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: And shout-out where shout-out is due, to Lyle, Tinkerbell of computers, who did share that same Wi-Fi, no router is called a mesh or peer-to-peer network.
Brandon: Yes.
Amanda: Everything on the network acts as an equal rather than the traditional hierarchy.
Eric: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Brandon: Yes.
Julia: Makes sense.
Eric: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Thank you, Lyle.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: I know stuff.
Brandon: I will say, Eric, if you care about latency with your team and about post— true peonage, you got to try that LAN party, you know?
Eric: Hey, Brandon, shut up about your true peonage. You jumped through a door and landed in the water. Shut up about true peonage.
Amanda: Yeah. This was so fun. It felt— it felt the best kind of frustrating where, like, I knew the answer was there. We were able to try things. I really felt the stakes of the— the guards noticing and shit happening to Cammie and Havana as we were not there. But I mean, Julia, how was your experience of being separate from the party? I feel like you're always watching me and Brandon get up to shenanigans and being like, "Guys, get good."
Julia: It's not even like, "Guys get good." It's, "Guys, roll better, please."
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: A lot of the shenanigans y'all get up to is because, woo, those rolls were bad for the heist. They were not good.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, they were not.
Eric: Truly.
Brandon: I don't know what happened to Amanda, but now Amanda has— has been dragged down into my wasteland of— of bad rolls.
Amanda: I don't know.
Julia: I think that's the problem when you two are together and we separate the party is—
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Amanda starts getting infected by your bad roll.
Eric: Well, it's a good thing that we didn't do that.
Amanda: That we're not doing that checks watch two episodes later.
Eric: Yes, exactly.
Julia: Listen, sometimes we realized patterns too late.
Eric: The thing about the door, though, is that, like, you didn't know what was behind the door until you open the door.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: So it's like think about it, this door should have three knobs on it, because there's like something very secret inside of it.
Julia: Yeah, no, I don't disagree.
Eric: So the whole time you guys were like, "Oh, why did this door suck so much?" And I'm like, "Well, there's something very important inside of it. It's like— that's why."
Julia: Well, I think that the problem was we thought the door sucked so much because we thought it was one thing and then it ended up being another thing, you know? So you get it as a player in your head like, "Oh, I know the solution to this problem," and it's that— this thing is a portal to another part of the ship or something like that.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Right.
Julia: Instead of, "Hey, we have to open three individual doorknobs at the same time."
Brandon: I mean, Eric, traditionally, people put locks on doors as opposed to more knobs.
Eric: This— it's— there's a lock—
Julia: It got— it had a key.
Eric: There's a— it's— there was a key.
Julia: He had a key and had a retinal scan.
Eric: You just— you just got it immediately. You just knocked a man out and like the key— you did— there is a key.
Amanda: It's really smart, though. It's like the false bottom drawer, you know—
Eric: Exactly.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amanda: —of— of doors, which I— I think is really smart. And you think you get through one, maybe two, and then you're like, "Ha-ha." And then you find yourself at the back.
Eric: I'm more than saying that like when I come up with puzzles, I'm like, "Oh, obviously, I need a good puzzle, because there's something on the other side of the door." But you don't know what it is until you solve the puzzle.
Amanda: Yes.
Eric: So you're just like, "Ugh. Why does this door suck so much?" I'm like, "Well, because there's a thing— there's a thing there. That's why."
Julia: But it's fair.
Amanda: Let's get into this payload. So players, how do we feel about the reveal of all of these plans cloaking the real money item in the middle?
Julia: I don't love that one of the countries now has the ability— or did have the ability to make one of the keys. I mean, even from just a character perspective, Cammie's like, "I'm working really hard to find all these keys and they're just gonna make one? That sucks."
Brandon: Well, we don't know if it actually works, you know?
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: No, but like the fact that they're trying is concerning.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: Hmm.
Brandon: No, I agree completely, yeah.
Amanda: Julia, you and the question surgeon, Michellespurgeon, were thinking right along the same lines, because she says, "What was exactly the machine that Hothouse was making? And is the search of the salmon creating a cold war kind of situation within the 4 nations?
Julia: It definitely seems like that, and I expressed in the episode, both in character and out of character, I don't want to really do war crimes and/or be the catalyst for a war that's happening potentially between the countries, so—
Eric: Yeah. And Commander Vineyard was like, "Shh, don't worry about it." Like you're a horse like, "Shh."
Julia: Oh, my fellow players were also like, "Shh. Don't worry about it."
Eric: No, it's fine. We're—
Amanda: Yeah, we were, we were.
Eric: We're having fun. It's fine.
Julia: I was like, "I just want to put that on tape ahead of time."
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Brandon: I— I— I understand that Julia does not want to do war crimes. You're a pirate.
Julia: Oh, yeah, Brandon, because pirates constantly doing war crimes and, like starting wars.
Brandon: Yeah, they do, Julia.
Julia: No. Pirates specifically do not particularly want to be invested in the politics of their countries.
Eric: That's why privateers exist. That's why you got hired to privateer.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Yes. And I was not happy about that as well. The fact that there is paperwork that says, "Oh, yeah, we hired these three privateers—"
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: "—including the former prince of this country—"
Amanda: Yup.
Julia: "—to go ahead and do a potential act of war if people find out," is not ideal, you know?
Amanda: It's not. It's not.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: You're right.
Eric: Yeah, Commander Vineyard did say explicitly that Troy's name was on those documents.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: He did.
Eric: He did say that.
Amanda: He did.
Brandon: I— I— I'm firmly on the side that chaos among stable nations is good for pirates.
Julia: Until they're unstable.
Brandon: Yeah, that is better for pirates.
Julia: Hmm, debatable.
Brandon: Then we take over and become the new continent of stable country thing. We no longer have to pirate.
Julia: Listen—
Eric: Oh, yeah, that's what pirates do. They love becoming president.
Julia: Yeah.
Brandon: That's when you become the man, you know?
Julia: Brandon, you know what? It's fine that Cammie and Umbi have different goals in their pirate lives. That's totally fine.
Amanda: It is.
Eric: And Troy is just like, "Look at my muscles."
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: I get to do a wish.
Amanda: Eric, Dr. Spurgeon also wants to know, "How did you come up with the mechanic of taking HP for forethought?"
Eric: Yes. Good. And Amanda, good job for remembering that. Yeah, that's something that I— I've taken from Blades in the Dark, where you can make rolls, and you kind of have like resource points, because Blades in the Dark is all about heists. So if you want something, you can say, "Oh, I actually had it the whole time, and you can make a roll on it." HP is kind of like the resource pool for everything in Dungeons and Dragons. So I thought, "Give me a— a slice your HP and you can— and you can have it." And you had it.
Julia: I also think you did that in Campaign Two as well, when we did the heist on the government building.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: You had us sacrificed a certain amount of HP or like time in order to get things prepared.
Eric: Yeah, for sure.
Amanda: And I really like it, like as a— a player— a thing that really held me back early on was feeling like, "Oh, God, like if I— if I don't do the right thing in any given step of, you know, planning or, you know, before we get into Initiative, or even in early initiative, then I'll have like, lost my chance, and fucked over my party, and like there's nothing else I can do. I had other anxiety issues unrelated to Dungeon and Dragons. But I really like the idea that, you know, you could do something that's interesting for the plot, that is informed by what happens later, and make an informed choice to be able to, you know, trade something— some optionality for the future in order to have, you know, revise the past slightly.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah. And I mean, that's what made the episode before this move faster, was that—
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: —we skipped forward from 30 minutes of discussion and be like, "Let's just do it."
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: So it was like that wouldn't be fair of me to want to skip forward and also not give you the opportunity to have planned.
Julia: Yeah. And sometimes you don't know what you're going to need. We're not Ocean's 11. We don't know how the plot is going to bang out, you know? So sometimes you don't know that you're gonna need a thing until you're in the middle of the heist, and you can be like, "Hey, can I make a sacrifice in order to have been prepared for this thing that we weren't anticipating?"
Eric: Yeah, exactly. And you had plenty of time.
Brandon: I tried to give Eric some of my real-life mana, my real life like, "Do you want to limb to be able— to allow me to cut out off—"
Eric: But you tried to Venmo me a finger.
Brandon: Yeah, I wanted to Venmo Eric a finger in order to be able to cut out all the flailing that we did around the door, but he would not accept it.
Eric: Brandon, in real life, you could have just said your real-life resource pool is in fact American money.
Brandon: No, I wanted— you kept asking me for like— you wanted like a firstborn child or, like—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: —you kept— like you wanted like—
Eric: Yeah, but the— that's because I'm giving you the ability to play piano.
Brandon: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Julia: I now have a golden fiddle that Eric gave me, is that good?
Eric: Yeah, exactly. "Hey, my— hey, my DM asked me—asked me for my firstborn child in exchange for running a D&D campaign. Is this a fair trade?"
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Well, getting into Episode 26, shout out to BlueSpectr who came up with some Drooz fan art essentially immediately after the episode dropped.
Brandon: So good.
Amanda: Absolutely incredible. Eric, would you tell us about this— this sweet friend?
Brandon: My favorite—my favorite word.
Julia: Amanda, stop calling these really fucked up characters sweet friends. You need to stop.
Brandon: He's a sweet friend. He's a perfect boy. I love him.
Julia: Just stealing part of our life force, and our souls, and our future. That's fine. Yeah, sweet friend.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Eric: In my head, I went kind of like outfit out. I wanted it to really feel like a— like a real like— is this— in a real kind of like Pirates of the Caribbean way, is this pirate a ghost? Like, is this sailor also dead?
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And I kind of went out— like from sweater outwards. Also, like I did a lot of research into, like, the types of cable knitting of different sweaters and what they mean.
Brandon: Oh, they have meanings? Oh, that's cool.
Eric: Yes. Yeah.
Amanda: Oh, yeah. Like Shetland Islands versus other places, yeah.
Brandon: Oh, I didn't know that. That's cool.
Eric: The— the iconography and the different stuff is like— you know, it's like, "Oh, you want God's protection? I want life. I want money. I want stuff like that." So I was kind of thinking about that from there and the type of patterning. So I kind of went outwards from there. Also, like you guys were— kept asking me if you could get stuff and I'm like—
Amanda: Yeah, we did that.
Eric: —and I said no, which really means, "Shut up, let me think for five seconds." So I knew I wanted to put that in there for you, and also be able to like trade in— have different places to trade in amber as well as other stuff.
Julia: Sure, sure. As much as I love having my amber for when we return back to the Hold, I do enjoy having a merchant that I can also exchange amber for. Though, I was like so reticent to, like, give Drooz Amber, I did not like his vibe. I did not want to give him anything that he possibly—
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: —would want, so—
Amanda: Yeah.
Brandon: I realize I— what— what— who I was imagining, what I was imagining just now with Drooz, I was imagining a sailor version of the spider person from Cult of the Lamb. Do you know what I'm talking about? The guy that sells you--
Julia: Oh, interesting.
Brandon: —villagers?
Eric: Yeah.
Brandon: That thing, that guy in a like, yeah, a cable knit sweater and like a— with a pipe or something, you know?
Julia: Okay.
Eric: I— I do want to say it was pretty funny of me to make a fruit flyer, so—
Julia: That's very funny. I like it a lot.
Eric: I just— I just didn't know if anyone thought— I just didn't—
Julia: It was hilarious. Hey, bud.
Brandon: I thought it was really funny.
Julia: Very fun, very smart, I love it.
Amanda: It's also—
Eric: It's actually— yeah, the reason why I didn't do the spiders because I did it for— for fun because I thought it was fun.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: It's also really funny when I sent you, my spouse, $5.
Eric: Can I tell you? I also just kind of said for fun, that like, "Hey, Amanda, spend— give me $5." And then I decided to backfill the reason why, it was because you got something for free from Drooz, which I thought— was which I just thought was a funny thing to do.
Julia: Yes, I wasn't sure if that was a backfill thing or something that you had planned, which I think is really interesting. And then I specifically remember you telling Brandon right before we did the edit for that episode, being like, "Can you add, like, a little like magic, like, transaction noise to Amanda sending me this money?" And I really thought that was a smart way to handle that.
Eric: Yeah, give me a— put some magic shimmer on that, please.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: And you did, Brandon. You did a great job with that one.
Amanda: Yeah.
Brandon: Thanks.
Amanda: Sound design is tax in Join the Party. There's— there's a lot of information that you can get from how Brandon treats the different voices and interactions—
Julia: True facts.
Amanda: —on tape.
Eric: The other thing that I thought was very funny was that the three of you decided to discuss your plan in front of the person selling you stuff, which is why I immediately raised the price when you changed your plan.
Julia: Damn it.
Amanda: It's fair, and also good.
Eric: It was so funny.
Julia: Yeah, that's on— that's on us. That's our bad.
Eric: It— oh, it's three Amber? No, in fact, it— it's four Amber. So you're— sorry, you can't— it's like all I have this other thing, but unfortunately, you can't spend money on it. Sorry.
Julia: Son of a bitch.
Amanda: Sorry.
Eric: So— it was so funny. Don't— hey, folks, this is just a question for any of you if you're in a— in a market where there's haggling, don't tell people what you're going to do in front of them.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: It's a good tip.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Fu— this is a fun fact from me— from me to you.
Julia: Quietly discuss it away from the booth and then return, and be like, "Here's— here's time to haggle, baby."
Eric: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you definitely could have haggled. He was there, but you just decided to be like, "Okay. We're changing from the ice plan to this other thing. What do you think about that merchant?" And then you're like, "Ah. How much money do you have?" It's that much.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: It's that much.
Brandon: We did try to haggle. It just wasn't— it was a pretty stubborn price, you know? He wanted— he knew what we wanted.
Amanda: He knew it was the thing we needed, yeah.
Eric: Yeah. Because you discussed your— yeah, you discussed the plan in front of the guy, and he was like, "Oh, well, it sounds like you want this thing, so—"
Julia: "It sounds like you need this badly, so my price just went up."
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: I do really like the ice plan and I— you know, I— I regret that we couldn't do it, but what we ended up with definitely got us there in one piece, which I appreciate.
Eric: Hmm.
Brandon: We did do with Havana. He— he was in a nice bath.
Julia: Yes. I was giving everyone—
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: —iced tea, it was my thing.
Amanda: Of course.
Eric: It was funny.
Amanda: Librarychick says, "So Baba Rutabaga said that the glasses weren't hers, but did she make them for someone else? And is that why she could use the glasses the way she did to talk to Cammie?" Julia, what do you think?
Julia: I don't know. I was very surprised that Baba Rutabaga was able to contact Cammie through the glasses. It was a moment where I rolled that Nat 20 during the soldier's tea leaf reading and I was like, "Oh, shit. Here comes Baba Rutabaga stuff." And then the fact that it was using the glasses, which Eric admonished me— I can't remember if it was on or off mic, being like, "You haven't used it to read a book since like— you— you simply haven't done that yet." And I was like, "Oh. Yeah, I haven't."
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: "That's a good point. That's a good point."
Eric: Yeah. No, I had in my head that Baba Rutabaga wanted to talk to you through a book the whole time.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: It must've been so frustrating to be like—
Eric: And you just— just— you just didn't do it and I was like—
Amanda: "—Why is Umbi doing it?"
Eric: Yeah. I was like, "Yeah, there you go." In my head, she did not talk to you through the glasses. Baba Rutabaga put a book in front of you that she was ready to talk to you through, it was through the book.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And then she controlled Nonny and put the— put the glasses on your face.
Julia: I don't love that she can control Nonny. I'm just gonna say that out loud. Also, was it a particular book, or was it any book if Cammie had used the glasses to read them? Okay. Hmm. Okay, good to know.
Eric: You were fall— if I remember, you were falling through the air, you were falling through the book, and then there was a ledge.
Julia: Yes.
Eric: So I think it was through any book.
Julia: Okay, good to know.
Eric: Like it was— it was like— there was a door that you could have grabbed onto, if I remember correctly. So that's like Baba Rutabaga inserted herself into this thing.
Julia: Gotcha. Good to know.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: On the Reading Rainbow Superhighway of information.
Eric: Yeah. Baba Rutabaga said, "Take a look. It's in a book."
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Reading Rainbow.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Alright, folks. Well, we have plenty to talk about regarding the Divine Labyrinth and all kinds of great game and character questions that we've received. But first, let me pop into the kitchen for a quick refill of our little snack platter here. There's puffed rice.
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Amanda: Hey, it's Amanda. I hope everybody out there is having a very Happy Halloween, if that is something you celebrate. I know that I'm spending this weirdly warm day in New York City, enjoying all of the beautiful sights and pumpkins, and gourds. I just— I love a time of year where— where gourds are really celebrated, so this is really my time. Welcome to the mid-roll. Welcome, especially to our newest patrons, Grace, Gavin, and Shane. we can only make the show because of the support of patrons like you. And I hope you are enjoying everything that the Patreon has to offer from ad-free episodes to access to the Discord, including our brand-new Conversation Pit channel, by the way, and Party Planning. There's more than 50 episodes of party planning for you to catch up on, 5-0. That's a lot. If you want to have your name read here in the mid-roll, and enjoy all that stuff, come on over at patreon.com/jointhepartypod. This week at Multitude, I know we're all looking at the sort of creepy stuff around the world right now on Halloween, but have you ever wondered what life would be like on a planet different from our own? You see like a kid dressed as an alien, and you're like, "Hey, what would an alien be like? Why are all those aliens humanoid? Why can't they be like, I don't know, a bug or a cloud of gas?" Dr. Moiya McTier has thought about it. So go on over to Exolore in your podcast app, or exolorepod.com to listen to Dr. McTier as she explores fictional worlds by building them with a panel of expert guests, interviewing professional world builders, and reviewing the merits of worlds that have already been built. I promise you're going to learn, and laugh, and gain an appreciation for how special this planet really is. We are sponsored this week by BetterHelp. And I know that I always have times where I'm like, "You know what would be really good for you, Amanda? It'd be really good if you had like, balanced meal, went to yoga, spend some time in the sun, college, grandma, read a book, didn't touch your phone, et cetera, et cetera." But I can always make myself do the things that I know are good for me. I really wish I could, and things would be a lot easier. But something that— that's like a— a data point for me. Something telling me that there's something, you know, making me tired or not otherwise sort of in line, and in stasis, and symbiosis the way that I want to be. So I talk about that kind of thing in therapy, and it really, really helps me. I have— I feel like I finally found a therapist that I get along well with, who understands me, and it's making a big difference in my life. And I really feel strongly about talking openly about therapy as a thing that a lot more people could benefit from than currently access it. And I really want to encourage you that if the idea of starting therapy is overwhelming, or inconvenient where you live right now that you consider using a tool, like BetterHelp. BetterHelp is entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. All you have to do was fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist. Best of all, you can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. I did this lots of times when I used BetterHelp, and it is definitely a good feature that helps you start to figure out how you're going to get along with someone, and what you're looking for in a therapist. So make your brain your friend with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/jointheparty today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/jointheparty. We are also sponsored this week by Ravensburger CreArt. This is a very cool paint-by-number experience from Ravensburger. Now, I was recently visiting my grandma and she had several of her CreArt art hung up on the wall. She did them and she was so excited that she hung it up over her fireplace. And if you are looking for a hobby to soothe yourself, maybe to do with kids, maybe to do with a relative, to take on vacation, to just have something to, I don't know, keep your hands busy while listening to a great podcast, consider CreArt by Ravensburger. Whether you're a seasoned artist seeking a new challenge or someone like me who is a beginner and trying to explore painting because like, hey, that was really fun when I was a kid and I don't ever get to paint as an adult, so like let me try it now. It's a great way to do it. So you can shop CreArt by Ravensburger in your local game and hobby store, your craft store, or on Amazon today. That's CreArt, C-R-E-A-R-T, by Ravensburger. And finally, we are sponsored once more by our friends at Bodoni Designs. This is the ultimate place for TTRPG enthusiasts looking for unique and high-quality gear inspired by the game. I have a +1AC sweatshirt and I love it dearly. It is blue, it is fuzzy, it is very comfortable. I love that I get to wear it around, and it's not like, you know, a t-shirt with the, like, Wizards of the Coast logo on it. It's not, you know, a dice pun, which, you know, no shame. You guys might enjoy that. But I love the, like, subtle pastel, sort of girlie version of— that's girlie with an I-E like for girl— for, like, trendy girlies. I feel like a trendy girlie when I wear the clothes by Bodoni Designs. I'm not gonna lie to you. They have t-shirts, they have tanks, they have hats, they've sweatshirts, all kinds of incredible stuff. You gotta go check them out at Bodoni Designs, that's B-O-D-O-N-I, designs.etsy.com. Whether you're looking for something to wear out and about, a gift maybe, gift season is coming up for someone who loves TTRPGs in your life, or you're not a cosplayer but you do want to kind of wear something cool for, like, your next convention or gaming session, go for it. Check them out and use the code Join the Party for 10% off your purchase, active now through November 24th. So get those orders in under the deadline before November 24th. That's Join the Party at bodonidesigns.etsy.com. And now, let's get back to the show.
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Amanda: Alright, folks. We are back, and I've got some garlic-free eggplant dip for all you Amandas out there.
Brandon: Ooh.
Julia: Ooh.
Eric: Wow.
Amanda: Enjoy, enjoy.
Eric: I want to admit something from the previou— in the previous episode, I had a whole thing planned. I had written out all these fun, country aphorisms—
Julia: Oh, yeah.
Eric: —for Baba Rutabaga to say to Cammie what was happening. And I was so in the moment that I forgot to do it. So then in the next episode, I said, “Ah, piss. I have all these country aphorisms. Brandon, will you put them in for me?" And then you did. But hey, folks, just do the fun thing that you had— you had set up and I'll— I'll admit that I got so stuck in it that I forgot to do it.
Julia: You're just so into the roleplay, that's fine. I love that.
Amanda: But in the moment, we weren't like, "Oh, weird. Really letting us down in this moment." Like you just happened to prepare the thing that you forgot you had.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: I know, but it's like I really worked hard on them, and then I was annoyed at myself. Like, you'll stick out like a hibiscus horse in an Earl Greyhound race.
Julia: That's really good.
Eric: I was like, "Come on, Eric. Come on. Use it."
Julia: That's fair, man.
Eric: Thank you for letting me put that in.
Julia: I'm glad that it made it into the final episode.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Personally.
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: So let's turn our attention to Episode 27, the first episode of the Divine Labyrinth Arc. What a good name. We landed there, we set it out, we get separated, and start the maze. There's also the reveal before any of that even happens of the big rhyme. Oh, my God. This was a, like, chilling, incredible role-playing game moment for me.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Julia: Shout out to— one, gave me chills, I think we all gasped as you revealed the entirety of the rhyme
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Really excited. Also shout out to me being like, "Alright, let's do some critical reading in our poetry corridor."
Amanda: Yup. And Brandon noticing the capital T in they.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: UH-hmm.
Amanda: Very good. And listening back to the episode, the line, "You're a long way from home and it's never been drier." Oh, my God. I got goosebumps right now, so—
Julia: Very good. Very good.
Eric: Yeah. Gotta move the plot forward, folks. I don't know. I don't know what to say. I'm just like—
Amanda: No, no.
Eric: —yes, it's the thing. I wanted this to happen, having it on the wall— having it on the wall was important. But no, I mean, it's just— you know, it's plot—
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: It's— here's a plot, I give you plot.
Amanda: Julia, Brandon, anything that surprised you about this? Because unlike a lot of the arcs we've done so far, we kind of know exactly what we're sailing into. Like, we were not going to a thing called the Book Depository and then being like, "Meh." Like the Divine Labyrinth is a divinely charged labyrinth, and in the middle of it is something we want, we think. Like anything that surprised, or delighted you, or scared you about this first episode?
Julia: Yeah, I think in general, because of Cammie's nature and the conversation with Baba Rutabaga, I and Cammie both had a lot of trepidation in arriving at the Divine Labyrinth. And so I think, in general, I was approaching the way that I was playing this with a lot of hesitancy, because I don't know how my spells are going to be affected in this place when, like, clearly I am not of a divine origin. And I don't know, like, if Cammie in particular might be targeted because of that, or anything of that sort. And now being separated from the group, it's a really interesting and kind of nerve-racking experience, but also it gives me a lot of opportunities for exploring Cammie's character in this situation.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that surprised me was I said— and I don't think I fully understand it, if there's anything extra to understand. But, yeah, the— the mechanic of transporting to the top of the tower.
Amanda: Oh, my God, yes. Let's start there. Okay, we got a ton of questions. And this— this was a— like a cinematic moment for me as well. So Savedman says, "Eric, how much anticipation did you have for us to activate that transport spell? Also, what was the mechanic for it?" I'm gonna tell you right now. I don't— I don't drop this reference very often. This is a kin to the port key in the fourth book—
Brandon: Hmm.
Amanda: —of the series that shall not be named. Like that— that same moment when I read that book, I remember very well being a child reading it and going like, "No fucking way." I felt the same. Incredibly fun, incredibly interesting. Eric, where the heck did you get this idea from?
Eric: I thought it was neat if that would happen. Before we got there, I wrote down in my notes, "Is the front blocked up? Is there a tower in the middle where you can make eye contact where a statue— with a statue you transport there? If you look around, is there another entrance that's only there for the labyrinth, but the— all the green tricks your eye?" I just, like, kind of write these notes to myself, and then I see where it goes. And if you guys ended up exploring it and then like what ends up touching. You know whatever ends up happening, it's just what becomes canon. So, yeah, I don't— it's just like— well, what happened was, is that Troy did it, and then Amanda rolled so well that Troy came back. And then immediately, Julia's like, "I want to do that." And then did it, and then did not roll well. So it was just like— yeah, like you're ri— like you're right. That's— that's what happens.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: So was it just literally pointing at it, that activated the spell?
Eric: Yeah, because you— what— I didn't have like a statue up there, but I need it— if you gestured at it.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Liter—physically gestured at it, you got transported there one way, unless you saved.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Here's a question from the audience that I don't remember honestly, if I considered, but Mixelle91 says, "Why didn't Umbi and Troy just point at the tower again and reunite with Cammie?"
Julia: Because we didn't know the mechanics of it, you know? And we also didn't know if there was a way to get down or— you know, we didn't know. We didn't know.
Brandon: Yeah, and I think the idea was— I don't know if this is true or not. In my head, I don't know if it would've made it into tape or not, but part of the idea was, like, maybe Cammie can help us from the tower—
Amanda: Yeah.
Brandon: —navigate the maze better.
Julia: Yeah. I think we said that on— on mic too, where like, I was going to be the eye in the sky, the— the man in the chair kind of situation.
Brandon: Right. Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. Literally, a bird's eye view of the maze should help us significantly, and getting through the maze was, I think, turning that splitting of the party into a unintentional advantage was at least my hope.
Brandon: And it could have been a trap, too. Yeah, I don't know.
Amanda: Certainly could have been a trap, and communication was difficult. Like Tattoed-N-Tall said, "Julia, did you ever consider trying to paper airplane a map to the rest of the party? And Eric, what would have been the DC on a kind of move like that?"
Brandon: A 100?
Julia: Yeah, it would have been pretty fucking high, I mentioned.
Amanda: It's far.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: And also, like, I— worst-case scenario I had sending, I could send you guys another message to, like, give you information.
Brandon: You did. You did do that.
Julia: Well, I know, but again, I could have done that.
Brandon: Oh, I see.
Eric: Oh, what—
Amanda: Love you.
Julia: You want to talk about that moment?
Eric: Only, of course— yeah. I mean, you could try certainly.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: That was funny.
Amanda: Thank you, Brandon, for following through on the bit and—
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: —and slicing in that previous example.
Brandon: Got it. You go it.
Julia: Uh-huh. But I think that, yeah, like, even when I rolled fairly well on creating a map for Cammie, it was only for the area directly around the grove, so I don't think that would have been helpful for me to send to y'all anyway.
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: We didn't know at the time, but yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Eric: The— the answer to these questions of why didn't they do it is because they didn't, honestly. Like that's always the answer to these questions. Every choice is available to you at all times. And you just— most of the times I have mechanics for it to see— to make sure that you can do what you— what you want to do.
Julia: Oh, you had paper airplane mechanics?
Eric: You could have done it if you wanted to. I would have figured it out. You can do whatever you want. I want to know, for the three of you, what draws all of you so much to splitting the party? It happens a lot— and especially in this campaign, I think it happens a lot. And I don't know if it's, like, making plans or making rambunctious plans is very pirate-y. So I wonder—especially as— it's— Cammie wanders off, and then Troy and Umbi blows things up, and do some wild shit on their own. So what draws you to doing that so much in this campaign?
Julia: You know what for me? It's— you're creating such beautiful and large set pieces for us to play with that I want—
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Julia: —to see all of it. And by splitting the party, I get to see it not only through the other player's eyes, but my own eyes and my character's eyes.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: I also think about, yeah, we got really fucked in the Bullseye Arc by splitting the party, but you even said, you're like, "Yeah, there were a lot of threads you could have pulled on, but you only pull it on them, like, 60% of the way." And I'm—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: —like, "Well, now, I need to pull on all of the threads a 100%—"
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: "—so we can only achieve that by everyone doing, like, their own individual things."
Eric: And in the Bullseye arc, you only got fucked because your friend fell down a tower when you didn't want—
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: —when you didn't—
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: —want that to happen, so you lost a lot of time.
Julia: Yes.
Brandon: I think it's more, for me, it's like the— the classic D&D advice of don't split the party is mostly for fights. It's like, if you get into a fight, and you split your party, you've lost, you know, your healer, you've lost your range, or you've lost your tank. So, like, you're gonna be way less likely to beat that fight. But I think for D&D, otherwise, like the reality is that we can still talk to each other unless you tell us not to. And we're here, so we sort of get the best of both worlds if we split it up, or like we learned some knowledge about this other thing while also being able to communicate that knowledge, even if our characters aren't. Like I think it— it does— it's just more fruitful and helpful in life and in D&D to split the party so you can learn more things more quickly. Unless you're playing very, very classic D&D where it's like if you split the party, you will die, you know?
Amanda: That's the main thing for me as well, is it feels like a way to gather more data to solve the puzzles, because the challenges you put in front of us are more interesting and complex, and have more solutions than more maybe traditional style, where the three of us are like brute-forcing every perception, or investigation, or history check.
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: Like it's fairly rare that all three of us roll the same check, and typically, you know, the person who rolls the highest will get the information and then share it or not with the rest of us. We're not like, you know, trying to triple our odds of success in any given check or encounter, because that's kind of boring, and just not the style we play.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: That makes sense?
Julia: A 100%.
Brandon: Yeah, I— I sort of— I have faith that— of course, there's going to be times where you might want to, you know, throw something extra hard at us, but I sort of have faith that you find it more interesting to, yeah, throw us challenges that are better served by exploring different angles, you know? Because they're more fun to listen to.
Eric: You don't have to do anything for me. I do what you guys do. Like, I think that— that—
Julia: I kind of like it.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: I think that's fi— and I think that's fine in— if you think you're doing something for me, and I think that I'm doing something for you, that's how good relationships work. But it's like, in cause and effect, there needs to start with a cause. So it's like don't be afraid to do the cause yourself, but—
Amanda: I'm not doing it because I think you want me to.
Eric: Correct.
Amanda: I'm doing it because like it's— it's interesting. I like the scenes, I like the characters, like the variety. I like pulling up multiple threads, like Julia said. It is informed each other, like you're saying, like your— you know, the style of game you prepare is also because you're like these— these fucks are likely to— to split into two. It's like I need— I need two tracks here probably.
Eric: I'll do— I do whatever you do.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Like— and that's— I do end up planning— planning this— this game like really one session at a time. Also, if all of you went to the middle of the labyrinth, I think you would have had a fucking problem. I think it would have been bad. You would have literally thrown yourself into the middle of this thing and— no, I guess it would have been different, though. It's interesting.
Amanda: Well, we actually had a question from Fredawesome who said specifically— you know, similarly, "Why didn't you all just kind of join up at the observatory, but instead, split the party and split the points?" I actually think we were kind of mid-maxing this. Like, we were— we were each able to have points accruing, instead of the whole group only going one turn at a time. Like we had two-point accrual games going simultaneously.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: And, you know, would it be better if Julia did— did roll instead of Havana? Yes, but I— I think that actually ended up giving us more choices.
Eric: Hmm.
Brandon: Yeah, I didn't think about that before, but that is— assuming we can share information at some point, that is definitely true. Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. Which is to say like the first time I heard what Julia was doing in this episode, was listening to the episode just before it came out like the rest of you.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: So it was— it was really interesting, it was really fun. And we have some questions here about kind of that process. Starting with question broth of Malignant Sloth, who said, "I am obsessed with the mechanics of the Divine Labyrinth maze, especially the rolls. I'm loving the influence of the camp-paign on your DMing style. So, Eric, I'd love—"
Eric: Thanks.
Amanda: "—for you to say more on bringing the concept of a mixed success into D&D, especially how it's different from a DM's perspective? And players, are you loving it as much as I am? Because it's something I want to take into my future campaigns."
Julia: Immediately, yes.
Amanda: 100%. I really like it.
Brandon: Yeah. It's— it's more fun than pass-fail, for sure.
Julia: Yes.
Brandon: Just like glass.
Amanda: In the future, if some DM, like, slap me down by being like, "Oh, yeah, you slip on a banana appeal and you fall on your butt." I'd be like, "I'm leaving."
Eric: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that Dungeons and Dragons does a bad job of expressing this in the first place. Like the whole point of doing— having a D20 system is you get more numbers. Like, inherently, it's more numbers than rolling two D6, right? Like, you're going from—
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: —2— 2 to 12 as opposed to 1 to— 1 to 20 and it's spread out in that way. So it's like, if you have a DC, you know, I think that a good people running Dungeons and Dragons always will have that. Like, yeah, I think there is a pass-fail, but it's like there needs to be successes. It's like if I have a DC of 12, and you had 12, the 12 is always going to be different than the 20. I mean, that's why people celebrate when you get a Nat 20, right, because you roll—
Amanda: Yeah, there's—
Eric: —the highest literal possible thing.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: There's a gradation built in. It's not just pass-fail with a DC, but also a Crit 1 and a Crit 20 are different from—
Eric: Right.
Amanda: —other rolls.
Eric: Well, it's like theoretically, let's say you rolled 2 and you had a negative 2 to a stat, you can literally get a zero.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Eric: But— and then that can go all the way to— imagine having like a plus 5 to something and you roll a 19, that's 24. So it's like there's this number degradation from 0 to 24, and then at the bottom is the Nat 1 and at the top is the Nat 20, right? And, like, you should use that degradation and draw a line in the sand of what is success.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: What I got from this move which I use as an extension of the camp-paign and this idea of moves from Power of the— by the Apocalypse game. It's like you're in a mini-game in a video game, right? I would not use this idea of mixed successes in Dungeons and Dragons unless you're doing something very specific. Like, you're doing a roll— a mini-game roll that only makes sense for this particular thing you're doing. Good comparison to this is that— is the murder mystery from Dimension 20 that they ran when they were doing the investigation checks—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —and trying to get information, then there was like— if you roll really— if you roll a 15, you get bronze information. If you roll a 20, you get silver. And if you roll higher than that, you get gold in terms of the types of information. Like—
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: —don't rip apart the game system you're doing unless you're trying to ensconce in within a little pod, I think is my answer. Like if you want to play— this is also like playing a game other than Dungeons and Dragons stuff. It's like if you want to play a game that has mixed successes and everything, play that type of game. But you can also jump into this small thing, which is— I only do this for the labyrinth move, like I'm putting moves into D&D. And it's this little pod that we're kind of jumping into.
Julia: I think it's also really useful to have, in a way, set things that happen for each bracket of success—
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: —you know? Like, I really liked the idea of like, "Oh, you roll this and you get a point, and you meet a denizen of the maze, whether that's a positive or a negative thing."
Eric and Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: So I— I think it is like really interesting and smart. And, like, as a player I know, at least, somewhat what to expect when I roll within that bracket.
Amanda: A little sub-question here from Collin Wade. "I love the variety of situations you subject Amanda, Brandon, and Julia to in this campaign. I want to include more variety from my players as well. So, Eric, do you have a process to come up with the mechanics using each event or location?" And I would add to that, how do you decide when— when's the right time to, like, plop a mini-game into our main storyline?
Eric: When you do things that D&D can't do.
Amanda: Hmm.
Eric: For example, a heist or navigating a labyrinth.
Amanda: Hmm.
Eric: If there's something that would— that literally you cannot figure out a way to do it with checks and contests and saving throws, then you got to make something else. But I think that that's ultimate— that's ultimately what it comes— what it comes down to. Like, I pulled this from the thing because we did something similar to this in the camp-paign when we did the bouncy house and when we did the woods, right?
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: How else am I going to get you guys to feel like you're going through a maze other than this?
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: And I did a different variation of this points system instead of like the successes thing that you did before, trying to steal things back from the— the Puzzle Cleric, et cetera. Or just like you got to keep going until you're at the end. I want to do this point system because it's like you are in the maze, but you're also doing stuff inside the maze. And then eventually, you will need to get out of the maze, but it will be difficult because, you know, you need to spend five points to get to the grove and to find the exit. Like, that's what happens when you go in a maze. Like, you don't just find the exit.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: Let's zoom into Cammie's experience in this episode. Here's from Fredawesome, just a comment but, "I like how the NPCs keep telling Cammie to do or not do things that she has no immediate control over. For example, she didn't take the curse from Baba Rutabaga. Also, she can't just teleport out of the maze. Julia, your reactions to these are great."
Julia: I could potentially just teleport out of the maze. I'm not gonna do that but, you know—
Brandon: I could not have known that.
Eric: Could you? Could you?
Julia: I mean, I have a spell, and if the maze doesn't fuck with that spell, I could potentially just teleport out of the maze.
Brandon: I'm gonna guess the maze is gonna fuck with that spell.
Amanda: The maze might've some thoughts.
Eric: Big— big if— big if, Julia. Big if. Big if.
Julia: I don't know. I simply don't know.
Eric: It's a big it.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: But, yeah, I think that Cammie is frustrated in the best Cammie sense, where it's like someone is asking her to do something, and they're like, "Uh, I mean, I'll try, but I can't really control that, so later. Deuces."
Eric: Yeah. I thought it was— yeah, it was kind of like around this whole thing of like, why haven't you done the thing I want you to do now? Like, do it, do it right now. And I— it's— I—
Julia: 'Cause no one told me.
Eric: Yeah. Brandon, Amanda, how did you feel hearing the stuff that Cammie did for the first time?
Amanda: I was really surprised and impressed that she just saw the harvester.
Eric: Yeah. Yeah, dude.
Amanda: I didn't know who that guy was, didn't know anything about him. Like, my God, that guy is scary. And I had a lot of questions that may or may not get addressed in future episodes of this arc.
Julia: Who can say?
Brandon: I was going to ask you, Eric, if I— if I could just step out of the room for all episodes, and then— because when I edit them, I get so excited that it's like— doesn't feel like I'm editing because I— I'm learning along the way. So if I—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: —could just be kicked out of the room for all the episodes and— all of them?
Amanda: So you're saying you don't want to be a player?
Julia: Yeah. Brandon's like, "I would like to stop playing and only edit the podcast."
Eric: Brandon, if you wanted me to go get another player, I will go get another player. I can— we can do that.
Brandon: Well, I want to both play, but then maybe like if you hit me on the head real hard, so I forget what happens.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: You know?
Julia: You already have memento disease.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Brandon: I know, but it's not bad enough. So maybe you can work—
Julia: Hmm, okay.
Brandon: — make it worse, you know?
Amanda: Okay. So we'll just—
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: We'll recruit—
Julia: Make it worse.
Amanda: —more crows to come and, like, peck you?
Brandon: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: Yeah. This stuff is really funny. Just— yeah, I wanted you to see the harvester immediately. I thought it was funny with how, like, immediately they're like, "Alright, we're gonna go to the labyrinth. Uh-oh. There's a bridge. Uh, whoa." And then you're like, "There's a guy with a scy— with a scythe walking behind you."
Julia: Yeah. I tried to warn you. I told you that there's a bad—
Amanda: You did.
Brandon: You did.
Julia: —guy in there.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: We— we had a full Scooby-Doo-esque high jinx adventure with my friendship arrow as you were like running face-to-face with a serious enemy.
Eric: It's so funny.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: It's so funny. You said bad guy, but that really did not get across, one, how close and two, how nasty the harvester is.
Amanda: I don't know what else we would have done. I— I enjoyed our 25 words. I think Julia and I did a great job.
Brandon: No, I think it worked. I— I could be wrong, but I think we— yeah, like, you know, it doesn't matter necessarily a mechanic, but it was like turn left, not right, you know—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: —kind of thing because—
Julia: Yeah.
Brandon: —of the harvester.
Eric: That was good. To me, you guys were like, "Neat." And then you walk into the labyrinth.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Like, you didn't, like, keep your head on a swivel. Havana was not, like, looking out for bad people at all times. You're like, "Nice. Boop, boop, boop see you— see you soon. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Hope we meet up at the"—like, it's like you guys were like, "Oh, yeah, we're at the Natural History Museum. Meet back here in two hours." Like that's the vibe we got.
Amanda: "See you at the antelope diorama." Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, it's like, "Meet back at the T-Rex." I'm like, "Alright, have fun. Okay."
Julia: Fair.
Amanda: Well, here's a question about our new best friend, the harvester. Milkycross95 wants to know, "Why just a pumpkin seed instead of the whole pumpkin for the head of the harvester?"
Julia: Who can say? I feel like.
Amanda: Really?
Brandon: I think a pumpkin— a pumpkin head is— is overdone. Have you ever seen a pumpkin seed head?
Amanda: Normal. What is this, David S. Pumpkins? No.
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: That's not scary.
Eric: It'd be so tight-- David S. Pumpkins would be so much funnier if he got a pumpkin head.
Amanda: Right?
Eric: Like, it's so crazy, you don't even know it's To— it's Tom Hanks. It's just— it's just pumpkin head.
Julia: That's very funny.
Amanda: Anything you wanna say about this, Eric?
Eric: Yeah. I agree with Brandon, pumpkin head played out—
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: —so I do pumpkin seed, but—
Amanda: Pumpkin seed butt. I don't even know what the butt of the harvester.
Eric: No, no, not pumpkin seed butt.
Julia: The butt's made of roots.
Eric: Yeah, you guys didn't roll any investigation, so you didn't see the pumpkin seed, the— the harvester's butt.
Amanda: It's true.
Julia: Damn.
Amanda: That's on me.
Brandon: That's a Dungeons and Daddies investigation roll.
Eric: I really wanted the harvester to be all— the parts of plants that are not the parts people like, like the roots and the weird guts, and the— like everything that's not the flesh of a fruit and the— and the flowers we enjoy.
Amanda: Hmm.
Eric: So pumpkin seed head.
Julia: Makes sense.
Amanda: That's really good.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: I also— I'm also particularly creeped out by a spindly villain, so I—
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: It was a good image.
Eric: Someone asked me if I synced up the labyrinth arc to Halloween, and they were like— and then you did a scythe-wielding creepy guy. I'm like—
Amanda: Nah.
Eric: "—Child, I will make this guy— it could be February, and this is the enemy that we're going to be doing."
Julia: I'll do what I want.
Amanda: Catowl_dolls asks, "Is there something about Cammie we don't know, or was that statute just a dick in the garden?"
Brandon: That I don't know.
Julia: I think that statue is just a dick. I don't know. Who can say?
Eric: Who can say?
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: I don't know. Who can say?
Amanda: Who can say?
Eric: Yeah. Was there— something in this episode I forget. Was there something that— that happened to Troy and Umbi that Cammie didn't see?
Julia: Only the ending where they see out of the corner of their eye, the harvester.
Eric: Oh, yeah, you didn't see it.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: You didn't know any of that.
Julia: Uh-uh.
Eric: No, no.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Did not know.
Amanda: Didn't know his name.
Eric: No.
Amanda: Didn't know any of that.
Eric: It's really hard to try to set up the next episode and being like, "Okay. So the thing— yeah, let's do that. Let's continue that thing that happened and the last thing to try to be as ambiguous as possible. Yeah."
Julia: Hmm. Uh-hmm.
Brandon: Well, I'm finishing editing the— or I'm working on the next episode, and the first thing you say to Julia is, "Hey, Julia, get the fuck out."
Julia: That's true. Well—
Amanda: That's true.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: —you kicked me the fuck out.
Amanda: Eepyfella actually asks, "How long did it take for you to figure out the maze mechanics?" I think they may have meant you, Eric, to plan it, but it also took us players— like we'd, like, get into a groove and this— actually, this episode was almost like a shorter than we typically release episodes, because we played for a regular amount of time, but between the, like, the leaving and the coming in, like the figuring out the rules and the kind of like comparing notes as players, at least when Brandon and I were in the room, compared to when Julia was. Like, it felt like three times more time had passed than the actual episode ended up being.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: And in the episode, it was— you know, you made it seamless, Brandon. So I— I was like, "Oh, yeah, like, I forgot I wasn't there for that. Like, this sounds really new."
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: It was a— it was— there were a lot of moving parts that I— I give you credit, Eric, for balancing.
Eric: Yeah. I— I feel like I end up doing more with Cammie, but just because Julia is the only one doing the rolls. Like it's you two and an NPC, so it's like— there's a lot more negotiation happening—
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: —when it's the— when it's you two doing it. So it's like you do less, but there's like a lot more going on.
Julia: Yeah. I'm also, like, very aware of my time too, where I'm like, "Eric, is it okay if I do one more action?"
Eric: Yeah, exactly.
Julia: I think that was kind of— I— I felt like I had to keep— not that I had to keep, but like in order to make it feel balanced. So it's like, "Alright, can I get one more action just for the sake of time and— and stuff like that?" So— yeah.
Eric: I mean, you got to watch them do stuff. I think that's also part of the reason why it seemed like the players not all go to the observation tower.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Where it's like Cammie's got to watch them do stuff and—
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: —and now, I think you kind of jumped immediately into, "I have a strategy with these points." Which I thought was interesting. Which is also why—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —y'all kept the split.
Julia: Yeah. I also had a strategy with the points, because as was revealed in this episode. I knew what those blanks were that Amanda and Brandon didn’t.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: I forgot about that. Shit. Well, that's what happens when you can see stuff from a— from a mile up and you see—
Julia: Yeah, a big ol' tower.
Eric: —and you got a good sense of everything.
Brandon: And you're rolling a Nat 20.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Well, guys, let's get into some bigger questions about Verda Stello and this camp-paign world. Starting with an important one from Collin Wade, "Do the Craggish soldiers deployed at the outpost use the Boiling Reef as a hot tub?"
Julia: Gosh, I hope so.
Amanda: Gosh, I hope so. I hope there's a little like Eddie right outside their sort of break room that they can dip their— dip themselves in.
Brandon: Is it hot enough for them though, or is that just, like, tepid, you know?
Amanda: I think it's hot. I think it's hotter than body temperature, which makes it hot.
Julia: Yeah.
Brandon: But— yeah, but they— like, are they— I can't tell if they're, like, used to it or if it doesn't— it doesn't feel that hot to them there, you know what I mean?
Amanda: Maybe they have to sort of get used to the temperature and so it's part of their, like, onboarding process to work at the— to work there, or people prove that they're really hardcore, like, "Ah, I could be in here for hours, then."
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Like, after they get used to it.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Yeah, that feels right.
Eric: Less hot tub, more dare.
Amanda: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. I like it.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Zachary rocha says, "Is Eric willing to establish the lore for how citizens of Verda Stello partake in safe, legal medicinal treatment or recreational fun? I mean, if he made the phonetic alphabet, truly he's thought about that, right?"
Brandon: I don't understand how—
Julia: How—
Brandon: —a phonetic alphabet and weed are connected.
Amanda: Details, details.
Julia: Because it's all about the details, baby, you know?
Eric: The thing that I've tried to get across during this whole thing is, like, people are living regular lives in the four countries right now.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: So it's like, yeah, they're fucking— yeah, they're doing whatever they're doing. They're playing— they're like, I don't know, playing musical chairs in Open Fields right now, you know what I mean?
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And that's just what they're doing. They're playing basketball with a potato. Like—
Brandon: How it get bouncy?
Eric: It's a bouncing potato.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Hmm.
Brandon: Okay.
Eric: It's an inflated potato.
Julia: It's a rubber potato.
Eric: It's a rubber potato. So it's like that— all that stuff is happening. Like, you know, in any fantasy world, everyone's living their lives around the stuff that's happening, which is why people are pirates in the first place, right? Like, the thing that I've been trying to get across this whole time is that people will become pirates for various reasons. They can tell everyone they want to save Verda Stello, and find the salmon, and turn the Cascade back on. But they also are like fucking just being pirates. It's been 50 years. If this was a fantasy story, the Cascade would have been turned back on after two. So it's like, you know, people are doing pirate stuff for their own reasons because their lives, in their various countries, are boring. So they're just like they're doing regular stuff.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: 100%. And is one of those regular things—
Julia: Drugs!
Amanda: —enjoying the devil's lettuce?
Eric: It's drugs, but you have to look at the face of— of the pot leaf before you grind it up.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Cammie's definitely made a bunch of magic mushroom tea.
Brandon: Oh, I'm sure.
Amanda: Nice.
Brandon: There's not going to be good when you are high, and then you look at your remaining weed and it has a face.
Amanda: Yeah.
Brandon: It's not the best.
Amanda: It's not ideal.
Eric: There's like an eye. Instead of seeds and stems, there's an eye in it.
Amanda: Oh, no.
Julia: I would recommend being from Open Fields and getting advantage on those wisdom saves.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Amnotagoldfish wants to know, "Are there underwater algae people?"
Julia: Who can say?
Amanda: Good question. Who can say?
Eric: Hmm.
Amanda: I'm not sure. And also they have plastics, didn't they think about the Infinite Lake when they invented plastic?
Eric: They obviously didn't.
Amanda: No, they did not.
Brandon: They have some of those like— you know those— that bacteria that can eat plastic, it's like they— those little guys—
Amanda: Oh.
Brandon: There's little guys that like to eat plastic. Yeah.
Eric: I don't know. We did do an entire allegory for California's water drought. I think that they don't— I think they just have plastic.
Brandon: That's fair.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Speaking of the Infinite Lake, Katie Hammond says, "I was relistening to the Camp-paign and caught the reference to a salmon of knowledge. Was that one of the inspirations for the current wish-granting one in Verda Stello, or just an Easter egg, or just— Eric just like salmon?"
Brandon: I think Eric also just— regardless of the answer, Eric does like salmon.
Eric: I do like salmon.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: I think the salmon of knowledge is fucking hilarious.
Julia: Yeah, it's very good.
Eric: It's probably my— one of my favorite mythological creatures, definitely top three.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: So I just— I always like putting— the salmon of knowledge is very funny. Can you remind me? What are you— the salmon of knowledge is just vibin', right? Like, he's just there?
Amanda: Just there.
Julia: He is like in a pond somewhere, and if you eat him, you get all the knowledge in the world.
Eric: Yeah, I love that. That's fucking awesome, I love that.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Like, you see—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —you don't have to do anything and you—
Amanda: It wasn't cursed, yeah.
Eric: It wasn't cursed. Yeah, it wasn't like— like Apollo didn't pee in the— in the pool—
Amanda: Nah.
Eric: —and now the salmon is smart.
Amanda: Nah.
Eric: It just is. I fucking love that.
Julia: Yeah. You just have to find him, that's like the journey.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: You know?
Brandon: It's so funny to me, because here in Seattle, there's a fish ladder, a salmon ladder for salmon to go from below to the high tide. And we went there and I was watching one try to get up there, try to get the ladder, and it just kept going like— flew from the air and then falling back down. Flew from the air and then falling back down. I'm like, "These salmon have no knowledge. They are not smart."
Julia: Yeah. It's because they didn't eat the hazelnuts from the tree and then fall into the well of knowledge.
Eric: Yeah, exactly.
Brandon: Basic ass salmon.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Basic ass salmon hasn't fallen to the well of knowledge, or wisdom, I can't remember.
Eric: We— we went there with you in Seattle, and it was funny seeing the salmon ladder both as like a date spot and also a spot for— to bring children who don't care at all.
Amanda: Yeah, it was like 11:00 A.M. on— on like a weekday. Yeah.
Eric: It was just like a bunch of three-year-olds screaming the whole time.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: It was very good.
Julia: But they're learning about the environment.
Amanda: I took a lot of pictures of the fish ladder signs. They were incredibly fun.
Eric: Oh, yeah.
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Mixelle91 asks, "Hypothetically, how would each of you multi-class your character?" I loved the class of the captain from Valda's. I love the idea of having the first mate that you also control, and I think that would be a really fun direction for Troy to grow into.
Brandon: Yeah, I don't know. I'll— I'll pass because I have no idea. Julia?
Julia: I'd have to think about it, because, you know me, I love a good build. I think I might, like, fuck around with murder.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: And make that, like, really interesting because Cammie's pretty beefy in terms of, like, HP and stuff like that. So I think that would be like an interesting way to approach it. And I think it would be really cool to mix witch with some sort of divine cleric-y class.
Brandon: Hmm.
Eric: Hmm. That would be cool.
Amanda: Nice.
Eric: I, like, don't even know how these would mix together for multi-classing. Like, I already blacked out. I don't even, like, look at the multi-classing options, because in, like, the book, it's like, "Yeah, multi-classing is broken. Have fun."
Julia: Yup.
Eric: But I don't even know how to mix the Valda's ones together.
Amanda: From Moss, A Sentient Rock and rachel_becca, "Does everyone in Verda Stello speak the same language? Are there dialects?"
Julia: I think we've established there are dialects, because we know about Craggish French.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: We do, we do.
Eric: Yeah, for sure.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: And Moss is like, "Hey, like, you know, there are obviously regional dialects, but like, has one taken over, like, English kind of has and like— we made a takeover, to be sort of like the de facto language spoken across countries?"
Eric: That's an interesting question.
Brandon: Or is there like a Star Trek universal translator situation happening? Yeah.
Eric: And I cannot think of a way to express this, and maybe because you need to think about a really hard. But it's like the way that people usually express this is through the analogues of European countries and fantasy races, is like, "Oh, yeah, all the dwarves are Scottish, and then all the elves are this, and all the blanks are this." So it's like I can't think of a way to express that in a way that makes any sense. But I think that there are definitely dialects. I think they all started as one language and then kind of, like, changed as it being a different places. But I think they're like— the— why— like being in the Great Salt Sea is, like, everyone needs to communicate with each other, which is why like the— we have Amber and all that stuff. So it's like the answer is yes, so we just have not figured out a way to express it on the podcast.
Amanda: Well, we can—
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: We can get Dr. Gretchen McCulloch to come in and— and kind of do the— the, you know, language analysis of Verda Stello. My headcanon is that the dialects are not yet separated enough from the common root, that they are all still mutually understandable, which is the case with lots of language in lots of places, German and Yiddish, like all kinds of things, where, like, you can— you can still understand your neighbors. And so there isn't like one that's taken over more so than there's like common roots where you can get it and you're just like, "Oh, it's so funny how they say Amber."
Eric: Yeah. There's also just like— because we're humans, there's just like such an inherent idea of tribalism and like, why do you have a language? Because you have a country, because you're people. And just, like, I do not have the brainpower to, like, deal with that, in this wor— in this world and that's something I want to explore. So it's like— German and Yiddish is a very good example. It's like, "Well, why Yiddish exists?" Because the Jews who are in one place talk to each other enough and combine it with the stuff that they— in Aramaic and— and an ancient Hebrew and created this thing, blah, blah, blah, right? And it's like Germans saw it as like the blasphemers German, right? So it's like—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —the—the ideas of where languages come from are too— kind of get into it a little bit too much for me to, like, explore it.
Amanda: They're always, yeah, contextualized with— with society.
Eric: Yeah. But instead of— like, I'll fucking throw— I— I'll— I'll— I'll fill it in, like, with the French thing, right?
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: With being in the— being in the big forest. Like, yeah, they all sound French, because they are trying to be separatists, and I thought that was funny.
Brandon: I think the next thing you need to do is really level up your GM game, Eric, is learn every language, if you could just go ahead and do that.
Eric: No, no, no. I gotta invent languages, Brandon. That's the only way—
Brandon: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Hmm.
Eric: —I'll be respected and they'll let me on Dimension 20.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah.
Julia: It's gotta be the con lag, bro.
Eric: Yeah, that's on me.
Amanda: Alright, guys. we're gonna have here our penultimate section, is a little bit of question— what is it called? Quick-Time in Mario Party?
Eric: Oh—
Amanda: Is that's what it's called?
Eric: You— qui— you mean Quick-Time events, mini-games?
Amanda: Yes. We're going to have a Quick-Time event, Quick-Time questions from Moss, A Sentient Rock. Alright, so Moss has given us a— a huge list of incredible questions that I will be drawing from in future Afterparties. I'm going to read the question out and the first person to answer takes the question off the board and then I'm gonna have to go to another one.
Eric: So we're—
Brandon: Fun. Okay.
Eric: So we're using the Moss to direct us towards— like following Moss to find where the river is—
Amanda: Exactly, right.
Eric: —is directing us through.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: I learned that— I was next to Brandon on a plane—
Brandon: Delta flight.
Eric: —and I was watching a documentary and it told me about that.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julia: Do you want us to buzz in or just immediately answer?
Amanda: No, just say it. Just say it.
Julia: Alright.
Amanda: What's your character's guilty pleasure?
Julia: Tea.
Amanda: Nice.
Eric: It's only guilty if you had an upbringing making you feel guilty.
Amanda: If non-Cammie had a familiar, what would it be? Brandon, would you like a little lighter— or like a little eternal flame that can't get too close to your things?
Julia: A living flame would be really cute.
Brandon: I think it would be a little pair. Just a little pair that ambles around with me, you know?
Amanda: That's great. That's great.
Julia: Okay. Great.
Eric: I kind of love that in like— it would be— I don't know— this feels like such an archetype to me, but like having a little— maybe it's a Dr. Honeydew and Beaker situation—
Brandon: Exactly.
Eric: —that you have a little pair that goes, "Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep." And— and you're like—
Brandon: Exactly.
Eric: — and you're like, "It's gonna be fine." And then it blows up in your face.
Brandon: Exactly.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: It's very god.
Brandon: Exactly what I was thinking.
Julia: I also really love that because there are so many options in the find familiar spell that are just fucking useless. So, a pair would be among those really useless kind of familiars, I feel like.
Amanda: What's the most precious thing your character owns? I think Troy definitely has the— he's like a— a part of like— like a memento from a comrade and I think that handkerchief that he tore up and gave half to Threelips, the other half is the most precious thing to him.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: That or—
Brandon: His muscles.
Amanda: —the closest barrel to him at any given moment.
Brandon: Oh, the barrel, yeah.
Julia: Of course.
Amanda: That barrel is his best friend, and at any given moment, Troy walks into a room, figures out if there's a fire, what's he going to save? The answer is the closest barrel to him.
Julia: Fair enough. Fair enough. Not his companions, the closest barrel.
Eric: No, that's the training.
Brandon: There's a group of small school children across the room and he's like, "Where's the barrel?"
Amanda: No. Sorry. Sorry.
Eric: I— I love this is your king's guard training. If there's a fire, what do I save?
Amanda: Yup.
Eric: It's pretty good.
Amanda: Which PC or NPC has been part of a pyramid scheme?
Julia: Umbi.
Eric: Havana Tropicana.
Julia: Oh, that's Havana Tropicana.
Amanda: Oh, no.
Eric: And Au— and Aurelo. Aurelo is a fop. Of course, Aurelo was in a pyramid scheme.
Brandon: Aurelo started the pyramid scheme, yeah.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: No, no. Aurelo is like level three, where like Aurelo goes on retreats, but he's not in the inner circle.
Brandon: Hmm.
Amanda: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: It would be like, "Alright. So what you have to do is I'm gonna give you— I'm gonna give you this box and then you sell the box to three other people, and they sell the box to three other people."
Amanda: Incredible. Yeah, he has a healthy downstream, but not a lot of upward potential.
Julia: Uh-hmm. He hasn't gotten the— the pink Cadillac ship yet.
Amanda: Very good.
Brandon: Nailed it. Nailed it.
Amanda: And, Julia, perfect segue into— finally, which country has the best public transportation? What is it like?
Brandon: Not Overstalk.
Julia: It's probably Hothouse.
Amanda: Ooh, yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Engineered. Imagining a lot of, like, elevators that go— like— like a sky tram. Hearkening back to Campaign Two, like little— little elevators that can go every which way.
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Julia: I think it's got like a— what's it called? Like the magnetic speed rails like Japan has?
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Yeah. I think they invent the bus like once every six months, though.
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Eric: They invent the bus—
Julia: Yeah, there's a lot of disruption in the market—
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Julia: —when it doesn't need to be disrupted.
Eric: They're like constantly—
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —building and unbuild, and like tearing things down. They're— and they're truly unbuilding it.
Amanda: Hmm. Right? It's like that'll be everybody's thesis.
Eric: I think that they have like real— in a real like Hunger Games tech sort of way. I've been thinking about this a lot because I— we saw some movies lately, and I keep seeing the prequel Hunger Games movie, which is just like Hunger Games, but it's World War Two, which is so funny. So— but it's like I keep thinking about this like— when people, like, accidentally invent eugenics or like a poll tax every— it's like— no, instead of paying for your subway ticket, you have to do a word problem. And it's like, no, that's bad, too. That's also bad. You can't make people do that.
Julia: Also bad. Yeah, no, that's— uh-uh, bad. I hate it.
Eric: Hey, you want to go around and say that we all— we all think it's bad? We can don't say it's bad.
Amanda: Yeah, poll tax are bad.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: I don't want to live in that world.
Brandon: Agreed.
Eric: Good, good, good, good, good, good. Just want to get on record that we all think eugenics is bad.
Julia: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: If we could just go around really quickly?
Amanda: Yup.
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah, yeah
Amanda: Yup, yup.
Brandon: Eugenics is bad, yeah.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. I think it's pretty—I think it's pretty wack.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Well, speaking of other non-controversial takes, it's time to spoil the plank. Time to spoil the plank, people.
Eric: So many questions from people ask— just asking me what's going on and I'm like, "I can't tell you. I just can't tell you."
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Alrighty. Let's jump right in with from A through Z. "Does Baba Rutabaga have such a line on Nonny, such as she could spy through Cammie through her, or maybe even force Nonny to do something that works against Cammie?"
Brandon: God, I hope not, but who can say?
Amanda: Word.
Julia: Who can say?
Eric: Hey, what do you guys think we go back to the part where we said controversial opinions?
Julia: No, go away.
Eric: I don't— I don't know what— I don't know what you're talking about.
Amanda: From Amnotagoldfish, "Since Audrey shows up everywhere the crew has been and she and Cammie are BFFs, a shrug emoji or something, four-eye emojis, is Cammie maybe double-cursed to pave the way for Audrey wherever Audrey wants to go and is unknowingly at Audrey's beck and call?
Brandon: Well, regardless of the answers that Audrey— I mean, we know that Cammie is like quadruple— like every curse is just a upon Cammie, right?
Julia: So unfair.
Brandon: That's just how Cammie lives life. Julia looks—
Julia: So sad.
Brandon: —confuddled.
Julia: Cammie is like, "I don't necessarily think I'm cursed. Hmm."
Eric: And then everyone in the labyrinth is like, "Yes, you are. Leave."
Amanda: Who can say?
Brandon: And with the powers and then you had to share a boat with Umbi and then—
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Yup, yup, yup.
Eric: Yeah. Then you gave Havana the book— the book of the path.
Julia: Shut up.
Amanda: EepyFella says, "A fifth type of Greenfolk? What the fuck does that mean?"
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: We also don't know.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: Who can say?
Amanda: Who can say?
Julia: I rolled solo, I'm sorry.
Eric: Who knows? I don't know.
Amanda: Ceci says, "Is the maze related to square King Commander Vineyard?"
Julia: I don't think so.
Eric: No, but that was really funny that you said that.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Mage Silverleaf, "What's the relationship between the planter and the harvester? I would love to know."
Eric: I just lo— I forgot that you guys didn't even know the name of the character was the harvester, that's—
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: That's wild.
Amanda: Yes.
Eric: I did— I cannot believe that.
Amanda: Yeah, you're gonna hear us find out. It's so good. Speaking of which, Katja says, "Is the pumpkin seed harvester, a creature that can be reasoned with or won over, or do they just serve their one specific purpose? Like, could you talk to them if you wanted to?"
Julia: Who can say?
Amanda: Who can say?
Brandon: Who can say?
Amanda: From Fred, "Is—"
Eric: Hey, can one of you try to just talk to the harvester? Just like ask them some questions?
Julia: I'll get right on that.
Eric: Take a chair, and turn it around, and be like, "Hey, dude."
Julia: Hey, dude.
Amanda: Pull a lamp right over you. Yeah. From Fred, "Is the harvester taller than the maze walls? How was he able to track the party?" Who can say?
Brandon: I mean, that was like—
Julia: Who can say?
Brandon: —some magic skill or something, probably. I don't know, but who can say?
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Hmm. And finally, I think the question on all of our minds, from Mell118, "Will we ever find out who's behind the carvings and the keys? Has all of this happened before?"
Julia: I think we'll definitely find out who's behind everything, but I can't say for sure whether this has all happened before.
Brandon: What if we just ended this campaign, like, 10 episodes before Eric actually reveals anything? And it's just like—
Eric: Yeah, I—
Brandon: "—That's the end of the campaign."
Eric: We got can—
Amanda: It sounds like a thing we definitely do. Yeah, yeah.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: HBO canceled us. We can't do it. I'm just like— I know that we kind of blew past it, but like I'm just surprised that— I— I think Cammie is the only one who's like unsettled by the fact that someone created a device to create something divine.
Amanda: Hmm. Yeah.
Eric: I'm pretty unsettled by it, and I made it.
Amanda: I am, too.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think— hmm.
Eric: And you have it on your ship. And you also have it on your ship now.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Parked right outside the Divine Labyrinth, baby. I'm sure nothing's gonna happen there.
Brandon: I don't know that I'm unsettled by it, because like, one, we don't know that it actually works. Two, it could just be that like, you know, sort of like two toddlers hitting blocks together, trying to make it work. Like— like the divine part might not have anything to do with it. They might have just been like trying to find the salmon, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know.
Julia: Listen, Brandon, isn't that just what the like— the particle accelerator is? It's like we are children, putting blocks together and see if anything happens.
Brandon: Yeah, that's true.
Julia: Except they're particles.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Brandon: Yeah. So, like, it could be equally likely in my head right now, at least, that like they do have some divine intention or something like specific attention. Or the particles hit, it explodes, and they unintentionally, you know, create some divine thing, you know? But I guess intention doesn't really matter in that instance. It still happens either way, but—
Julia: Yeah. Precisely.
Brandon: Eric just gave me eyes.
Eric: I'm— I'm not— I didn't say anything. I didn't say— whatever. I'm not saying that their intentions are divine. I'm saying that, like, I guess I don't have a better word for it. But it's like—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —the keys are important—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —and like—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —I'm— I'm unsettled, I'm certainly unsettled by the— by the key mold.
Brandon: Yeah, but don't we think— don't we just assume that everyone is trying to do this? Like a lot of places are trying to do this, you know?
Amanda: From— from how other people have talked to us about thinking that the keys were real, like many of them have dismissed it. Some of them were like, "Oh, like I thought I—I'm surprised you think that they're real also."
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: I am kind of validated and also a little concerned that it's—
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: —like a state project for Hothouse. So— so I am excited, and I think that it means that we're on the right track and pursuing them is a good idea. Next time a— a hater tells us that that's just a riddle, we know that's not.
Julia: It's also like fucked up too, because, you know, as pirates, we're searching for the keys as they exist. The idea that like someone can go about trying to create them, I think is so—
Amanda: It's against the whole thing. That's— that's—
Julia: It's against the whole thing.
Amanda: —game-breaking. Yeah.
Julia: Yup.
Brandon: Well, it could be— it could be a fool's errand. They could— might not be able to, you know, who knows?
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: We don't know.
Brandon: I'm excited for the Sea Whip to fight an entire country's navy.
Julia: I'm not. Again, I don't want to fucking go to war.
Eric: Well, at least there's nothing written down saying that the Sea Whip did it.
Amanda: Yup, yup, yup. Too true.
Eric: So I plan the things that happen one session at a time, but I do have a rough idea of things happening everywhere. Like, yeah, dude. Yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Like, yeah, yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Eric is bouncing as if we're about to tell him to go run a foot race.
Julia: I think like— and not to go back to this episode, but like, I think the thing that concerned me the most about that, like being a privateer seemed like a great idea until we realized that these were, like, two countries, and that this was, like, so involved in the keys. And it was—
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Julia: —at a much higher level than I think any of us anticipated this heist being at.
Amanda: Yeah. This conspiracy goes all the way to the top, Julia.
Eric: Well, that's why I was so excited that you guys were so bad at the door—
Amanda: Yes.
Eric: —because the heist turned into two full episodes of figuring shit out.
Amanda: Yes.
Eric: And then in the end, you guys got out in the various ways that you got out, right? But— so it's like, "Oh, wow, we just, like, had fun playing D&D. Oh, there's an international incident involving three countries that we just walked into." And I'm just like, "Yeah. Yeah, you, motherfuckers." I just wanted to— I know we kind of like— now, we're in the Divine Labyrinth, but I— and then Drooz happened immediately afterwards. But I just wanted to touch on that for a second.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: It's true.
Brandon: It's a pirate's life for me.
Julia: It's fucked up.
Amanda: Let's do— let's figure out and a lot more coming at the down pike for all of us here at Join the Party. So remember, become a patron, ask questions in the Conversation Pit, enjoy Party Planning coming out in a week and change. And guys, tune in on Tuesday for a brand-new episode.
Julia: Woo.
Eric: Woo.
Brandon: Wee.
Eric: Yarr.
Julia: Argh.
Eric: Yarr.
Julia: Avast Ye.
Amanda: Alright, folks. May rolls trend ever upward.
[theme]
Julia: Sorry. That was what I was gonna say.
Eric: Oh, yeah, here, you say it.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: I was just excited.
Eric: You— then you say it.
Julia: No, no, it's okay.
Eric: Julia, Julia, you say it.
Julia: I don't wanna.
Eric: Julia, you can say it, you do it.
Julia: I don't wanna do it.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Alright. Amanda, please.