What was in Panorama’s bags? What kind of plant puppy would you want for your own? And are there some questions better without any answers? All that and more on the Afterparty!
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Cast & Crew
- Game Master, Co-Producer: Eric Silver
- Co-Host (Umbi), Co-Producer, Sound Designer, Composer: Brandon Grugle
- Co-Host (Chamomile Cassis), Co-Producer: Julia Schifini
- Co-Host (Troy Riptide), Co-Producer: Amanda McLoughlin
- Theme Song: Lyrics by Eric Silver, music by Brandon Grugle. Vocals by Brandon Grugle, Lauren Shippen, Julia Schifini, Roux Bedrosian, Eric Silver, Tyler Silver, and Amanda McLoughlin. Available for purchase here.
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: https://multitude.productions
About Us
Join the Party is an actual play podcast with tangible worlds, genre-pushing storytelling, and collaborators who make each other laugh each week. We welcome everyone to the table, from longtime players to folks who’ve never touched a roleplaying game before. Hop into our current campaign, a pirate story set in a world of plant- and bug-folk, or marathon our completed stories with the Camp-Paign, a MOTW game set in a weird summer camp, Campaign 2 for a modern superhero game, and Campaign 1 for a high fantasy story. And once a month we release the Afterparty, where we answer your questions about the show and how we play the game. New episodes every Tuesday.
Transcript
Amanda: Hey, hi, hello, and welcome to the Afterparty, baby, where I have a wiggling puppy in my jacket, so I'm not really sure how long this episode is gonna last. But, hey, what's up, everybody? I'm Amanda.
Eric: It's— it's Thanksgiving dinner right now, and Amanda has brought a puppy to it.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: And I think that's pretty rude, because it's— this pumpkin is inside of the turkey, and I think that's pretty rude.
Julia: But I think that it's festive because it is a pumpkin.
Brandon: Wait, the—
Eric: That's true.
Brandon: —the puppy pumpkin is inside of the turkey?
Julia: Yeah, because he's eating it, not because they cooked him.
Brandon: Oh, okay.
Amanda: Yeah, like one of those situations where like you take it out, and then, like, you turn your back, and then you look back, and then the dog is, like, eating the ham.
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: But the puppy is inside the turkey because it's that’s what---
Brandon: Oh, it's like a Monica Geller situation.
Julia: Yes. Clearly.
Amanda: Sure.
Eric: I— no. No, it's not. Alright, the scene is over, Brandon. No, it's not.
Julia: Damn.
Amanda: Hi, everybody, welcome— welcome to the innermost sanctum of the Divine Labyrinth. It's what I used to say when I took dates home? Question mark. I don't know. I feel weird. Most of what I've eaten for the last few days is— is just kind of scraps from the fridge in preparation for Thanksgiving.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: And so—
Eric: My mom is not gonna listen to this. You can say whatever you want.
Amanda: No, I know. And— and two weeks of coffee. So, you know, we're just— we're just rolling. We're vibing.
Eric: If we sound different, we are recording this in my mom's basement. Now, does it have an incredibly large TV and soundproofing? Yes.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Are we still in my mom's basement? Yes.
Julia: Is the ceiling still unfinished from what I can see in the video?
Amanda: It is.
Julia: Yes.
Eric: Yeah, dawg. I am looking at some pipes that go to various places in the house.
Amanda: And they're ancient.
Julia: Floor joists.
Amanda: But because she and her husband met working for a speaker company, high-quality speakers with, like, audio jacks I've never seen, and I'm kind of an audio engineer at this point. And it's a— it's pretty exciting. Julia and Brandon, how are you doing? How was it watching people watch and listen to these shenanigans that we recorded first separately and now together in the Divine Labyrinth?
Julia: I enjoyed listening to what you all got up to while you were in the Divine Labyrinth without me, which was very fun. But I also was very stressed listening to— not even like listening to you guys, but like being off the call and, like, my headphones is on the other side of my desk and still hearing screaming and I was like, "Oh, god. Oh, no, that's not good."
Brandon: These are like my favorite moments, because yeah, I get to— before the audience hears it, but before my other players, like co-players hear it who didn't play it. Like I heard what Julia did before Amanda did, because I got to—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: —edit it, and before the audience did, and so it's just like a—
Amanda: I'm hearing that Brandon loves knowing things when I don't know them.
Julia: True.
Amanda: Yeah. No, it's— it's very cool to listen to an episode and be like, "Oh, my God, that's what happened to Julia."
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: I was like, man, Julia had a tough one in Episode 28 while we were having just, like, various adventures.
Julia: Yeah.
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric: It does make more sense. I do like that you say various adventures when like you two realize that your companion had a divine quest to kill the other?
Amanda: Yeah, that was tough. Didn't see that one coming.
Julia: Was that just for you?
Eric: It's just— it's just fun, just fun, just fun.
Brandon: I mean, we wouldn't have let it happen.
Amanda: Unlike Brandon, Julia, I didn't like that I knew something you didn't know. And so when we— when we finally discussed that, I was very relieved. But we got to— we got to get to where we got in order, people. So let's begin, of course, in Episode 28, where we separately met Panorama, or Havana got that divine revelation that we talked about. And Julia got a— a very cute spirit lamp. Eric, lots of questions here about just like what's up with Panorama's whole thing? And also, what the fuck is wrong with these birds? Like what's happening with these birds?
Julia: What's up with the birds?
Amanda: What exactly is wrong with them? NIN-sko-loss was like, "I— I got to know what's happening with these birds in particular." So what can you tell us about Panorama and the birds?
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: Uh-huh.
Brandon: Is there anything you can reveal, actually? Like, can— like, are we there yet, or do we need to wait 'till the end of this arc for you to tell us what the fuck is happening?
Eric: Okay. Well, Panorama built or grew the Divine Labyrinth and—
Julia: Uh-hmm. She's the Daedalus.
Eric: Yes, she is the da— she's the Daedalus. That was the funniest the way that Umbi was like, "Do I know this person?" I'm like, "It's like you're looking at Plato, pretty weird."
Julia: Pretty weird. Just ran into Plato.
Eric: Yeah. You know, like Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure when all these guys show up, it's like that.
Amanda: Yeah, on that note, ItsMeDannyB wanted to know, "If any of the players rolled history, not just Umbi, could we have known that Panorama was like a figure we would have known?" I simply just didn't think to do it.
Brandon: Well, just because Panorama had a model in our actual history doesn't mean that they were a figure in the Greenfolk space. You know what I'm saying?
Julia: She might have been.
Brandon: Might have been, but—
Eric: The thing that I was more trying to get at was— was, like, it's weird to know— that's why I was saying Plato, it's like— it's weird to know that this was a dude. Like, you know, Julia, you played the Assassin's Creed Greece one game, right?
Brandon: I did too.
Eric: Oh, you did too?
Julia: I did not actually, so ask Brandon about it.
Eric: Oh. Oh, okay.
Brandon: I did.
Eric: But, like, Brandon, wasn't it funny how, like, all of a sudden you were like doing a fetch quest for, like, Plato?
Brandon: Yeah, it really was.
Eric: And, like, he— and he was like, "Can you get like five honeys for me before I wrestled a dude?"
Brandon: Yeah, the one really horny guy, I forget his name. He was just always—
Eric: Yeah.
Brandon: horny and drunk. Yeah.
Julia: They're always horny and drunk.
Eric: Or even like Pliny the Elder, you know, where we get all this, like, medieval medicine from—
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: —like that was a real person.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: And it's not to say that whether or not Panorama was known, or a mythological person like Daedalus, it was more like this person who only existed in the 12th century, turns out is a person.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: That was more of like the— it wasn't about knowing them or not knowing them, it was more about, like, the feeling of understanding that this person, in all of history, was— was real.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: This person that we mythologized is actually like a real person that we can talk to now.
Eric: Yeah, regardless of whether or not you— you are aware of the mythology itself.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: It was really similar to like in the game when Pliny the Elder was like, "Hey, I'm Pliny the Elder, isn't that weird? Do you want to hold this bag? Hey, hey, hey, hold this bag. Hey, hold my bag."
Julia: Eric, what was in the bag?
Eric: Pliny the Elder was like— Pliny the Elder was like, "Yo, if you have gall stones, hold this bag."
Amanda: And— and here I quote Afterparty question from Mage Silverleaf, "What was in the bag?"
Julia: What was in the bag?
Brandon: What was in the bag?
Eric: Uh-huh. Yup.
Amanda: Oh, boy.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: Oh, boy.
Amanda: Can you tell us anything about those birds, them birds?
Eric: Uh-huh.
Amanda: Oh, boy.
Eric: Panorama— Panorama is afraid of the birds.
Amanda: Oh, guys. The arc is over.
Eric: And gave you —and wanted you to hold something.
Amanda: Oh, boy.
Eric: Yep.
Julia: Cool.
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Oh, boy.
Julia: Cool.
Eric: Once again, is it more satisfying if I tell you or I don't tell you? I think it's more satisfying if I don't.
Amanda: Yes. It's him.
Brandon: Not— I mean, not to me, but—
Amanda: Him.
Brandon: —we also have a few episodes in the maze, so I don't know if you want to reveal that yet.
Eric: If—
Amanda: Okay. The— The Question Surgeon, Michelle Spurgeon.
Eric: Oh, okay, Michelle.
Amanda: Took some scalpels to this episode, because she wants to know a couple of things that I was really curious about too. One, "Was Havana actually hearing the Planter, or was it perhaps Panorama since she could see everything happening in her maze."
Julia: Can Panorama see everything happening in her maze?
Brandon: I don't know. I thought that was an interesting thought, though.
Eric: Panorama was like aware, was more like, "Oh, I built the mouse trap, so yeah, I probably understand what you're doing." I don't know if Panorama can see everything, but also she has the name Panorama.
Julia: Yeah, that's a good point.
Amanda: Tough.
Eric: Yeah, Havana was—
Amanda: It's not like Eric ever names things in a way that she gave us a clue.
Julia: I will say it's just a cool name in general.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: It is.
Eric: It was also like vaguely Greek, too. I feel like—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: —Panorama has a Greek root, so—
Amanda: It is.
Eric: — Daedalus— if— in terms of Daedalus, I thought that was interesting.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Whoever made that name, pretty cool. Yeah. Havana did talk to the Planter. This was like when you have to talk to the water company when your water is off.
Amanda: Yeah. Uh-hmm.
Eric: It was how I envisioned it. Or like—
Amanda: Yeah, yeah.
Eric: —you call, like, Con Ed if your electricity goes out.
Amanda: True, true.
Julia: True that.
Amanda: Dr. Spurgeon also wanted to know, "Was the labyrinth, in fact, designed by Panorama?"
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Or is it designed by the Planter?" And I'm adding on to Michelle's question like, what makes it divine and who else is cursed in this Labyrinth?
Julia: In my mind, if I can just extrapolate and then Eric can give us a real answer—
Eric: Please.
Julia: —it feels very Noah and the ark, and how God gave Noah the plans to build the ark, and then was like, "But you got to build it, I can't just make the arc for you."
Eric: Yeah.
Brandon: Gotta hate it when God does that to me, where he's like, "Here's the plans for free energy, but I can't just fucking build it for you, dude."
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: "Fucking build it, man."
Julia: "I'll give you the specs, but you got to figure everything else out."
Eric: First of all, when God talked to me, and when she, by the way, she, when she told me, "You should make an actual play podcast in 2017." I'm like, "But I don't wanna. It seems bad."
Brandon: Even— this is a little bit of a tangent, but Lauren and I been watching that new Monarch show, the new Godzilla show on Apple TV.
Eric: Oh, really?
Brandon: And every time we talk about Godzilla, because we weren't sure what Godzilla's gender was, we do that. We're like, "Oh, yeah, then when she comes up from the ocean."
Eric: That's so much funnier for Godzilla than for God. That's so funny.
Amanda: A plus.
Julia: That's very funny, Brandon. Joken for you.
Brandon: Thanks.
Eric: There you go. Yeah. I— I think it's like that. Yeah, I don't think— you know, I don't think there's more to say. I think just— the details there kind of that— that sort of vibe, yeah.
Julia: Cool.
Amanda: What— what's in the text is what we got.
Eric: Yeah, 'cause I'm dead.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Hey, Hello, my name is the author, I'm dead.
Amanda: Hey.
Eric: And the— the— it's just there.
Amanda: Love it. Post-structuralism, baby. Okay, let's go into Episode—
Eric: Even Dungeons & Dragons really like having a zombie as your author, coming to NYU English Department.
Amanda: I wish.
Eric: 2026.
Amanda: Would someone just hire Eric to teach? He has a Master's in Education, just hire him as a professor, please.
Eric: Please. Please.
Amanda: Alright. Again, into Episode 29, we meet the riddle stump. We get the salts, something genuinely helpful and valuable.
Eric: This episode probably— and I know that I'm gonna say the same thing about Episode 30. But this episode might be a quintessential episode of Dungeons & Dragons. A quintessential Dungeons & Dragons session and also of one of our episodes of Join the Party. It is just like everything you want from a session of game.
Amanda: Say more.
Eric: Well, it's like, you know, there— I gave you a puzzle, you found other stuff. You dealt with the puzzle however you dealt with, the dice rolls were involved. You also were engaging with kind of the core mechanic of the arc at the same time, and you ended up getting to a goal that you've been working towards for the last few episodes. So I think this was pretty quintessential, and also I really— I certainly enjoyed myself.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Brandon: I also enjoyed myself.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: I also enjoyed myself. My favorite part that we've been quoting since we recorded that episode is, "I fucked it!"
Eric: And we've been saying it so much.
Amanda: So often. It's so good. For months, guys.
Julia: For months.
Amanda: Matleena wants to know importantly, "Eric, did you know beforehand at the stump would have a hot video girl game bod?"
Eric: Yeah. In my notes for this, I did write down, "The stump will have a magical girl transformation." I did not know in Episode 29, but I realized it was funny— it would be funny if—if they had a transformation once they're at the Grove.
Julia: Plus, you had to give them a reason to follow us around the Grove, too.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: I knew that they were going to be involved because the thing was like— again, I wrote this down, "The stump was always on the liminal space of the Grove and the rest of the labyrinth." So I always knew the Grove was going to be inside of the— Julia is— is getting fucked by the sun right now.
Julia: I know. Hold on. Just keep talking. I'm gonna fix it.
Eric: I saw— I saw it happened and I'm like, "Oh, that's so— that's so funny."
Amanda: And she's wearing a shirt that makes her look like a skeleton, so—
Brandon: It's great.
Amanda: —a lot is happening. I like it.
Eric: Julia's getting— her bones are getting bleached, it's— it's just—
Julia: Yeah, it's true.
Eric: Yeah, I always had the notes, so I knew that the stump was going to be in there. I just thought it would be funny for them to, like, have a different form inside of the Grove. It'd be like, "You're seeing my true form."
Brandon: Did a— is the form more a Lara Croft: Tomb Raider situation or more an anime girl situation? Like Lara Croft in the first computer game.
Eric: Brandon, I was gonna say—
Amanda: Oh, yeah, yeah. Triangle.
Eric: —incredibly polygonal chest.
Brandon: Okay.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amanda: They— they announced during a Nintendo Direct recently, a sort of remastering of that game, and I'm like, "Uh-hmm. They still kept the pointy boobs."
Brandon: Did they really?
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: You can switch between the original graphics and, quote-unquote, "newer graphics."
Brandon: That's amazing.
Julia: Uh-oh.
Eric: And it's really upsetting.
Amanda: It's really upsetting.
Brandon: That's really funny.
Amanda: Dr. Spurgeon wonders, "How is Havana feeling about being told to get rid of the person who has shown him the path?"
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: Can I— let me throw this to Julia, who did this to herself.
Julia: I did do this to me.
Eric: The au— the author of this situation, I want to give credit where credit is due.
Brandon: Yeah, I assume this wouldn't have necessarily happened if we had chosen like Blackhat or whatever, right?
Eric: No, a 100% not. No way.
Julia: No, I did this to myself, just like Eric said.
Amanda: Just some other kind of moral reckoning.
Eric: That's why ever since Julia applied the amber to this, I've been laughing about it.
Julia: That is fair. That is fair. I do want to circle back to Episode 28, and one of my favorite moments, which was a choice that I didn't struggle with, but had to fight back my immediate-like player reaction to what Cammie would do. This is frustrating to me, not frustrating in a bad way, but frustrating in like a constructive character way. But having Cammie be an extremely kind person, that is how I'm trying to play Cammie, an extremely kind person, who has also been threatened to be murdered by people who love her in the past. Having Havana be like, "Oh, yeah, you know, I might have gotten a divine quest—"
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: "—from the Planter saying, 'I have to potentially kill you.'" Cammie being like, "You're still my friend, but if you try to kill me, you can try."
Brandon: That was my favorite line of— of yours in a long time.
Amanda: It was really, really good.
Julia: Thank you.
Brandon: "If you try to kill me, I will end you."
Julia: "I will end you."
Eric: I was— yeah. I was wondering— that's why I was playing it so nervously, because, like, Havana doesn't want to tell you. That's the thing, it's like, what is Havana supposed to do? It's like, "Okay, here's my friend. And then also, the God I worship is telling me to do this. So I'm going to wait for as long as possible until I have to decide what to do?"
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Question mark.
Julia: Or wait for the opportunity to present itself, you know?
Eric: Right, exactly.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Relatedly, EepyFella wants to know, "Given that Havana is having a big character arc in the last few episodes, I have to know, Eric, did you have any plans for the potential arcs of other variations of Havana?"
Eric: No. The way that— the way that I do this stuff is like I give you three choices, and then once you make the choice, then I go from there.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: There are certainly things, larger things, that I need to plan as far ahead as possible. Like, I know a lot of stuff that would happen at the end of this campaign, but these things have to be on an episode-by-episode basis so that I can make choices. And Julia, the true author of this particular arc, like, y'all did it, and it would have been different. Yeah, Havana really inserted himself into this.
Brandon: It's like Julia grew the maze.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: It was Julia.
Amanda: Julia is Panorama the whole time.
Brandon: It was Julia.
Julia: It is me, I'm Panorama.
Eric: Can I ask a question about 28 before we fully go into everything that had went on the Grove?
Amanda: Sure.
Eric: How did the three of you feel listening to each other dealing with Panorama?
Brandon: I thought it was funny they were the exact same thing.
Eric: My favorite part was— was when— I had this written out, Panorama, and I knew that when one of you did the— the thing where you ran into a denizen of the— the maze, I knew I was gonna do it. And then I realized I could do it to both of you at different times. It was like, "Hell fucking yes." So we— Umbi And Troy went first and then Ha— and then Cammie went second. How did you two feel listening to it?
Brandon: I— I thought it was hilarious. I just— I thought it was, I guess, sort of ironic maybe, even— I don't know if ironic is the right word, but that we sort of mind meld it into the same exact people, we're like, "This bag? No."
Amanda: It's also not frequent that Brandon's and my skepticism is anywhere near as close as Julia's in a given situation. So I was proud of us in retrospect for not trusting Panorama.
Julia: It was good, guys. I was very worried that Troy was just going to be like, "Oh, sick bag." And just take it.
Amanda: Nah. Got pockets full of sawdust, and I don't have space.
Eric: That was so funny.
Brandon: The funny thing is that like if Panorama had been like, "Oh, shoot. I dropped my journal. Would you mind holding this ba— this bag or a second, so I can pick it up?" I would have been like, "Yeah, totally." And—
Amanda: That's true. I would have just done it.
Brandon: Who knows what would have happened.
Eric: That's— that's very funny, yeah.
Amanda: No it was— it was really funny. It's very cool to see how— I mean, for me, especially how Julia would approach a situation, because, like, there are— like, I think Brandon handles combat super, super well, and like all of the ways that you make sure that your resources are best deployed, and like thinking about how to fit in.
Brandon: Stop.
Amanda: No, it's true. That, like, all of us in initiative. But Julia approaches situations in a way that is so, like, creative and thinking about how she can, like, check and optimize and, you know, look out for how to— she's making a little who me face. Oh, yeah. And so seeing just— seeing Julia approach situations, I'm like taking notes essentially as a player.
Brandon: Yeah, same.
Amanda: And not just on plot, but like how you should approach things as a player. So it's always so lovely to me when I get to see that.
Brandon: Yeah, agree.
Julia: I also forgot how mean Panorama was at times. Cammie approaches every situation like, "This is my new best friend. This is the potential to like meet someone who is going to change my life forever." And I really appreciate that. And I want them to feel as good about this interaction as possible. And then Panorama was really mean and Cammie was like, "Oh, okay."
Amanda: "So we're doing this?"
Julia: "You want to give me a weird bag? Hmm. I've been cursed once before, I'm not going to do this again."
Eric: Yeah. No, it was sick. My comparison point for this, just to give you some comparison points for what I was thinking, I was referencing this character in an old— old season of Dimension 20, where it was the one with all the— all the guests where they did like Lord of the Rings.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: And every one of them were villains from like a Lord of the Rings style fantasy setting. And there was one NPC that Brennan Lee Mulligan did, where it was a guy who's like a world famous or like legendary blacksmith, who was really worried that someone was going to steal his bones, and like the water was going to steal his bones.
Julia: Makes sense. Yeah, makes sense.
Amanda: Incredible.
Eric: 'Cause he— 'cause he was like inside of a cage in water for so long that he was worried his bones were going to evaporate.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And he was like, okay, well, you have to interact with this person because he is going to make you the crown that you need for this particular ritual you're going to do. And I thought Panorama was similar. It's like if you want to interact with Panorama, the person who created the— the puzzle you're inside of, you're going to have to deal with this absolutely insane person.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And, of course, do you know, whether or not— is she actually insane? Are the birds real? Are you going to take the bag? Do you— are you going to believe her? Is— was kind of like the whole thing there.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Yeah.
Brandon: Eric, without confirming or denying players, do you think the birds are or will be real? Or is Panorama sort of just like in a cursed situation, like— what's his face? Who do— pushes the boulder up the hill? Sisyphus.
Amanda: Yeah. I'm operating as if they are literally real.
Brandon: What do you think, Julia?
Julia: Yeah. I have to assume that there is some sort of like magical bird that we just don't know about in the— the labyrinth.
Eric: So why didn't you take the bag?
Amanda: Because I think she's gonna fucking give us bird seed to make us a target so she can escape.
Julia: She also spent a lot of time being like, "Make sure you push your slower friends down, so the birds get them first." I'm like—
Brandon: Yeah, yeah, that's really funny.
Julia: "—I'm the— the slower friend in that situation." She tried to make me the— the slower friend.
Brandon: If you look around and you're on the ground and, everyone else is running away from you, you're the slowest friend.
Amanda: You're the worm.
Julia: Also, if she's so concerned about the birds getting her, why would she give us something that is going to— like that is potentially a resource—
Amanda: Right.
Julia: —that she's no longer having that she's giving to us.
Eric: It was on— I just want to— I just want to lay out. It was on her waist, it was in a bag. Y'all assumed it was bird seed.
Brandon: Right.
Eric: I never said it was bird— I never said it was bird seed.
Brandon: Right.
Eric: We truly do not know what is in the bag.
Julia: No.
Brandon: It could be the bodies of our enemies, we know, yeah.
Amanda: Now, I assume it's salt, because interestingly, metaphorically, literally, salt has been a very useful and valuable weapon against the Harvester. And maybe now looking back, that's part of what she has. I don't know.
Brandon: Maybe, yeah.
Julia: I don't know. I don't know.
Brandon: I don't know.
Julia: I don't know if I trust her or not. The fact that it was a fail— is basically a fail roll when we got to meet Panorama both times, so that makes me concerned that—
Amanda: Yeah, we don't know.
Eric: That's right.
Julia: —it's—
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: —not a good thing.
Brandon: I also don't know, like, what her— what Pae— Panemenamas.
Julia: Panemanama.
Brandon: Well, I don't know what Panorama's relationship with the Harvester as you know, if it's like antagonistic—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: —or if it's symbiotic or—
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: —what.
Julia: Or she grew him or—
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. We don't know. We simply don't know.
Amanda: We simply don't know. We also don't know something that Venus Moon asked, which is, "I really liked the idea of the salt repelling the Harvester, because IRL, of course, salt harms plants. Is this purely an arcane interaction, or is the Harvester somehow more prone to salt poisoning because of its roots?"
Eric: Yeah, both. Yeah, you got it. You got it, Venus.
Julia: Nice.
Amanda: Nice. Good job, Venus.
Brandon: Yeah. Nice. Nice.
Eric: The whole thing about the Harvester being roots and salt, I thought was appropriate.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Very cool.
Eric: Also, I listen to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into the myths and legends. Every week we— we pour a drink and talk about [talking gibberish]
Amanda: You got it. From around the world.
Julia: So close to the whole thing.
Eric: I was so close.
Amanda: You got it.
Eric: "I'm Amanda and I'm Julia, and this is Episode 300, and Eric's on."
Brandon: "I'm Amanda. And I'm Julia." That was spot on.
Julia: That was great.
Amanda: We actually, recently— we actually—
Eric: That was— I was—
Amanda: Hang on, hang on, breaking news.
Eric: Oh, okay.
Amanda: We recently switched it. So instead of me saying, "I'm Amanda," first Julia's— well I say that. And then Julia says, "I'm Julia." But then Julia starts the episode.
Eric: Whoa.
Amanda: I don’t have to say anything after that.
Julia: Because we realized it's silly for Amanda to start the episode.
Amanda: What— how do— why do I know what it's about? When I— all I know is the title of the episode, then Julia teaches me the thing.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: So, anyway, huge, huge—
Brandon: Huge.
Amanda: —367 episodes in.
Julia: You can make changes to your podcasts even 360-something episodes in, just say it.
Amanda: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Are y'all ready to get into the Grove?
Julia: Yes.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Julia: A 100%.
Eric: Hell yeah, dude.
Brandon: Let's get into the groove with the Grove.
Julia: Wow.
Eric: This might be my favorite episode we've done in the arc. I know I just said it for 29, but this one might be the best episode we've done so far.
Julia: Wait, hold on, we didn't talk about the riddles for 29.
Eric: Oh, yeah, we didn’t talk about the fucking riddles.
Amanda: Okay, let's do that first.
Eric: Yeah. Hey, folks. Hey, fucking folks, you goddamn three.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: You three?
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: These riddles were supposed to be impossible.
Julia: So we did, is what you're saying?
Amanda: We— we did it.
Brandon: So we— we had to figure out a different way to get into the Grove?
Eric: Yes.
Brandon: Oh.
Eric: The thing would have been— or someone would have told you explicitly the answers.
Brandon: Well, someone did, it was our GM.
Eric: No, that's the— it's— no, it was your incredible rolls. I made the DC25.
Brandon: Well, no, we rolled 2 Nat20s in the first two, and then the last one, the DC was 25, and we didn't hit that one, but I got answer right.
Julia: You just guessed.
Eric: But you said it. What am I gonna do? I— yeah. You would have like— you would—I —if — I wouldn't have said no. I think that was pretty— I think that was pretty close.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amanda: So, Eric, tell us about the riddles as a— as A, mechanic in this game, and B, a thing that you actually, like, mechanically put together.
Eric: No, I want to hear Jul— whatever Julia is gonna say.
Julia: Oh, I was going to ask, when you say someone would have had to explicitly ta— tell us the answers to the riddles—
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: —did you think maybe we would return back to, like, Panorama and ask her or something to that effect?
Eric: I had a few ideas of things you could have done.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Eric: One of which was go to Panorama and ask what explicitly the riddles were because she would have known.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Hey, Amanda, you can't just ask NPCs answers to questions in Dungeons and Dragons. Hey, Amanda, you need to roll for things.
Eric: Well, okay, in this specific situation, yes, you can. Yes, you definitely can.
Amanda: I— the— the thought— I'm saying that because the thought literally crossed my mind, who can I ask what the answer is? And I'm like, Amanda, idiot. We're— you're doing a TTRPG podcast. People don't want to hear you just ask what the answer is.
Julia: We gotta roll the dice.
Eric: That's where— I was also— I was waiting for it too, because like it would have been— it was so funny that each of you met this person individually. And then you would have went— it's like, "Oh, you know, who would tell us for help?" "Oh, hey, you know, there was a weird flower lady we met?" "What?" I was waiting for that moment, but it happened in a different way.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Brandon: I— I would not go back to a person that was like, "Hey, hey, look at me. Look at my eyes. Hold my bag. Hey, hold my— hold my bag."
Julia: And I think at that point we would have been like, "In exchange for taking the bag—"
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: "—you need to tell us the answer to the riddles."
Brandon: Yeah. Fuck that.
Amanda: Unless it's like a drunk girl in a bathroom, in which case I'd do anything for her.
Julia: Yes, correct. She has to pee but her purse is so big.
Amanda: I know.
Eric: Imagine everyone rolled, like, below an 18 on first riddle.
Amanda: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric: Because I think the fact that you rolled a Nat20 and got the riddle— the first riddle gave you all too much confidence.
Julia: Yes. It really— it really did.
Amanda: Like, "We'll come back to this later."
Eric: It's like, "Ah, fuck it. We'll— we'll just run away from the Harvester. Make their— make their life harder, and then come back."
Amanda: That's actually one thing that surprised me about Julia's parts of the Divine Labyrinth episodes, is we just like directly engage the Harvesters so quickly, and they like attacked us and we attacked them, that Julia being surprised, that we did not just run away—
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: —surprised me.
Brandon: I— I had the same thought.
Amanda: And so— right? Like, Brandon, I was like, "Oh, yeah. I mean, almost killed Havana, nbd, that happens every day, like it happens."
Brandon: Yeah, 'cause, well, we had the conversation of like, "Can we even fight this guy?" Like—
Amanda: Right.
Brandon: —like we wanted to see if it was something we could actually defeat or if it was like a immovable object that we needed to somehow otherwise avoid. And—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: —Julia, the smart one on the podcast was like, "This is clearly not something that can defeat, right?"
Amanda: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were like, "I tried."
Eric: I think it's— but I think it's different because Jul— because Cammie saw it from a tower and be like, "Gotta avoid that dude."
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And you two— you two got fucking Kool-Aid Man by the Harvester.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah, we did.
Julia: That's true.
Eric: So I think it was just different situate— different situations being set up, even if it's like the same rolls.
Brandon: Nah, it because we're— it's because— 'cause Julia's smart.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Julia: I— well, I was thinking of it video game style and how there's a lot of games where like the whole point is don't get caught by the giant boss in this level.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: One Mistopher Xtopher.
Eric: Yeah. Yeah, Mr. X.— Mr. X is a really good version of this. Yes, Brandon, that was a 100% one of the references that I was thinking about. That's from Resident Evil, oh—
Brandon: Two?
Julia: One of them.
Eric: Two?
Brandon: I think it's two.
Eric: I think it's two, three. It's one of tho— it's one of those. Where like there's a guy who's like a bio— a giant bioweapon who's running after you and killing you perpetually. Yeah, I mean, it's good vid— it's good video game design and I stole it. So it was— I thought it was really— the Harvester has just been a fun— fun--
Brandon: "You fell into my trap card. This is— I'm serving you a lawsuit, Eric, for stealing Mr. X."
Eric: Oh, no. Oh, piss.
Brandon: You admitted it!
Eric: I'm going— sorry, we can't continue the podcast, I'm going to jail.
Julia: Aw. Oh, no.
Amanda: Let's—
Eric: You can run for president from jail, but you can't DM from jail.
Brandon: That's true.
Amanda: Tough.
Julia: That's tough.
Eric: That— Eugene Debs proved that.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Oh, tough.
Julia: It's— it would be so expensive too, those phone calls, you know?
Eric: Come to Join the Party. We're the one with the commentary about the prison industrial complex.
Brandon: "A collect call from—"
Amanda: You know what? I can get fucking MailChimp for that. I'm— I'm not gonna lie to you.
Eric: That's so funny. Oh, my God.
Amanda: Anything else on the riddles before we move into the Grove?
Eric: Yeah. I mean, the whole thing— so the first one was obscure. The— it was supposed to be just obscure. The second one was— again, was a translation error. And the third one was supposed to be totally just out of left field.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: But that's where Brandon lives.
Eric: Yeah, Brandon lives in the fields.
Brandon: You shouldn't ask a chaos monster a chaos question, Eric.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: It's fair.
Eric: No, no, that's on me. So, yeah, I think that you all got so much empowerment from that first Nat20 that you did it. I really did like— we ended up— I ended up recording this later. But I'm like, "Julia, the only way you would under— know the, like, final things of creation is from a deep rhyme that is embedded in your brain that you only learned from like— from like outdoor school."
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Which is what I'm calling path— which I'm calling path— path to religious studies for children.
Amanda: That's very cute.
Eric: And, like, that's what you did, and you wrote it out, and then we add to— we inserted it later, and I felt that was really great.
Julia: I was very proud of the poem I wrote.
Brandon: Your poem was fantastic.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Thank you.
Amanda: People liked it, too.
Eric: Yeah, it was tight.
Julia: I just opened up rhyme zone. I'm like, "Alright, let's come up with good words that rhyme with all these things."
Eric: That was tight. But, yeah, I mean— yeah, I had a lot of ideas. It's like you could have gotten into the Grove in a few different ways, but getting the riddles and then making the Harvester your bitch was not one on my list.
Julia: Gotcha, gotcha.
Amanda: The image of the Harvester like throwing themselves against the salt circle to get the scythe back is— is one of the kind of prouder moments of like in D&D creativity that I can think of from our years on the show.
Julia: Uh-hmm. I was very happy with how I tried to solve that problem of the Harvester and the salt.
Brandon: You mean the way you initially thought that was, like, put it on the entrances or, like, the circle?
Julia: I was very proud of—
Brandon: Just the idea in general?
Julia: Yeah. Well, just like using the salt in the way that I did with my magic.
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: And also getting the scythe away from the Harvester, I thought that was—
Brandon: Yeah, that was— that was—
Julia: I— I was very proud of that.
Brandon: You should be. Yeah.
Eric: The single most mad that I've been so far has been when the salt circle was broken, and I hit you, and I— and I did, like, 30 points of damage and you're like, "Oh, that's not so bad." I'm like, "Julia, fuck off! Yes, it is. It's bad."
Julia: I was very concerned that I was gonna have to get a Troy situation—
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: —where I was down and potentially very close to the end of my HP. And that's why I think in the episode, I said, "Oh, Captain Copernicus is waking up somewhere."
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Uh-huh.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Eric, how did you decide that the salt circle had been disrupted in the scuffle?
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: Is that something you rolled? Is that something that you decided on?
Eric: Yes, I rolled— I rolled on it. I— I really tried to roll as loudly as possible so it would get picked up on the microphone. But, yeah, I rolled—
Julia: That's fair.
Eric: —and who— whatever happened with the salt circle happened because of the roll that I made.
Brandon: Hmm.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: I guess a more specific question is, just because, like, what in your mind— I guess you can't really get at this without it being a spoiler, but like, is it just a bunch of us are fleeing and it's likely that someone may have tripped, or like, this is a, you know, unstable, impermanent sort of shield that I need to see how, you know, to attack this?
Eric: I think something happened. I mean, that's what happened in Episode 30. It was like when— when Cammie was checking shoes.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: It was like, "Yeah, Havana does have salt on his shoes, and there's a lot of it, but like, doesn't everyone have sand on their feet when they walk in from the beach?"
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: So it doesn't look great, but it also is circumstantial, and that's what I was rolling for.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Very fair. It's just an idea that popped into my head of, you know, this is perhaps a way to escape direct culpability, but kind of like make something happen for like the thing that Havana was tasked with, like a convenient way out of his dilemma.
Eric: Right, right.
Amanda: So—
Eric: Yeah, that's a good motive for Havana, but it seems like the evidence is circumstantial. So—
Julia: Yeah. I agree.
Amanda: I don't know.
Eric: I don't know.
Amanda: I don't know.
Eric: I don't know.
Brandon: And that's something we'll have to reckon with down the line. Definitely.
Amanda: Certainly not. Certainly not.
Eric: Yeah. And it's a good thing— and I'm— again, I'm really sorry. Again, I— what I want to say is that I'm really sorry that I put Cammie and Havana in such conflict. Like, it was really rude for me to put that on the players.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: And I think that I was really controlling the narrative there.
Julia: That was really all your fault, and I think you have to come to terms with that.
Eric: Yeah. Now, I'm making everyone— it was my choices that led—
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —led to such conflict. Yeah, right.
Julia: 100%, yeah.
Eric: I'm sorry about that.
Amanda: Well, Eric, the— the least you can do is go refill this trio dips, will you?
Eric: Yeah, I'm in the basement. I gotta go all the way up to the kitchen. Hold on.
Julia: Yep.
Brandon: Can you get some foley?
Eric: Stump, stump, stump, stump, stump, stump, stump.
Julia: Perfect.
Eric: Oh, hey, we're out of the red pepper dip. Like—
Amanda: Mom.
Eric: Mom, I need red pepper dip.
Brandon: More Code Red!
[theme]
Amanda: Hello, and welcome to the mid-roll. This mid-roll is the equivalent of a dog napping on your feet, keeping them warm, which we didn't have during this recording, because you know, dogs can be noisy, but I sure did afterward. Thank you, and welcome to our newest patrons, Cumulonimbus and West Aaron, we are so grateful for your support. The only reason we can put so much time and energy and love and care and devotion into making Join the Party. The dozens of hours that Eric spends every month planning it, and Brandon spends editing it, and Julia spends editing these Afterparties is all because of you, and you letting this be one of the ways we make a living. So if you want to be a part of that, if you want to, for example, buy a present for somebody, buy them a year of Join the Party Patreon support, hey, you can do that at patreon.com/jointhepartypod. You can do it for yourself, do it for a friend, or you can join on a month-to-month basis. Whatever makes sense for you, we are so grateful. You get all kinds of benefits like the patron-only Discord, where we had tons of photos of people's holiday meals for those that celebrated, and all kinds of dogs, and plants, and projects, and crafts all the time, and party planning, and so much more. Go ahead, join today, patreon.com/jointhepartypod. And hey, by the way, if you are attending PAX Unplugged, or you live in the Philadelphia area, or you want to visit Philly, and you— you've been looking for an excuse, let us be your excuse. Multitude is going to be at PAX Unplugged. We're going to have a table right outside the main show floor. Come by, say hi, get stickers, get cards, come challenge one of us to a game, perhaps a tabletop game, perhaps a card game. Who even knows what's going to happen? Get an exclusive pin, anything your heart desires, you can come do with us at PAX Unplugged. We are also doing some programming. Eric is on a great panel, and we are doing our NPC Creation Lab. So that Party Planning segment that you've come to love with Eric and Julia making NPCs on the fly, we are doing that live in person at PAX Unplugged. So come say hi, find Multitude outside the main show floor in the brand lunch tabling area, and come to our shows. It's gonna be so much fun. This week at Multitude, we would love for you to check out Pale Blue Pod. This is an astronomy podcast for people who are overwhelmed by the universe, but want to be its friend. Every single week comedian Corinne Caputo and our own astrophysicist Dr. Moiya McTier demystify space one topic at a time. And if you're somebody who finds space fascinating, amazing. If you're someone who finds space kind of overwhelming and terrifying if you think about it too much, that's definitely me. Pale Blue Pod is the show for you. They have new episodes every Monday. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now, I am definitely already feeling the sort of overwhelmed of the end of the year season. I'm looking at like the number of working days before the New Year's Day and kind of freaking out a little bit. Because this year really brings a lot to focus, like this time when you have to decide about traditions, and families, and stuff you're going to do, and prioritization, and saying no to stuff. Hey, I hate all of that, and I need a lot of support to actually do it. And that is one of the things that I turn to therapy for. And especially this time of year, it can be so difficult to balance seeing somebody in person, finding a new therapist, like everybody's away already for January, and it's like, "No, I— I need your help right now." So if you are looking to start therapy or looking for someone who is convenient and flexible and suited to your schedule, you can find that at BetterHelp. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. So find your bright spot this season with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/jointheparty today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/jointheparty. Finally, we are sponsored this week by Ravensburger Jigsaw Puzzles. And if like me, you are planning to see people over the next month or so that you don't normally see and maybe doing some traveling, maybe finding yourself at home with some extra time on your hands or in someone else's home with extra time on your hands, I highly recommend bringing an activity. We often buy Legos and do them at Thanksgiving, and I always bring a puzzle whenever I go spend time with my grandma. It's really fun to do together and she loves it. We have a little puzzle swap going on, and it's incredibly exciting, and wholesome, and sweet. And having a couple of puzzles tucked away in, you know, the closet or in your suitcase so that you know you can do something that is, like, social and occupies your hands, you can have TV on or music on in the background. It's just— it's just perfect, y'all. And Ravensburger has given us a chance to talk about how much puzzles are great because they are our sponsor this week. They have become an integral part of families' lives across generations and you too can share the joy of puzzling with family and friends. Knowing that those puzzles that you buy, if their Ravensburger brand will stand the test of time. I have literally decades-old Ravensburger Puzzles at my grandma's house and we still pull them out and enjoy the art and the puzzles, and they look like we just bought them yesterday. It's truly amazing. So if you're up for the challenge, shop Ravensburger in your local game hobby or toy store today or on Amazon. They are the bomb. Thank you, Ravensburger. Enjoy. And now, let's get back to the Afterparty.
[theme]
Eric: Okay, I'm back. My mom drove me to Kroger and I got Mountain Dew. They only had Game Fuel, but I think it was pretty close.
Brandon: Goddamnit, Eric.
Eric: No, Game Fuel is good. It's my favorite, and I— but I got four dips to make up for it. Now, it is all in one— unfortunately, it is all in one container—
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: —so they're stacked.
Julia: That's just a layer dip now.
Eric: Yeah, but it's like more— it's like more than eight layers, so it's pretty cool.
Amanda: Tough.
Julia: Okay.
Brandon: That's pretty tight.
Eric: It's like a trifle. Friends reference.
Amanda: There— there is a Taco Bell next to the Kroger that has been advertising for three full years, "Announcement, we now have breakfast."
Eric: The banner is bleached by time and wear.
Amanda: And now it's on their signboard, like their light up sign—
Eric: That's so funny.
Amanda: —like they— corporate needs you to know about breakfast.
Brandon: Before we get into this next section, I do just need to point out and have everyone clap and applaud for the utter expertise that Amanda showed on how to put an umbrella into a beach.
Amanda: Oh, thank you.
Eric: Oh, I loved that.
Amanda: Thank you.
Eric: That was so good.
Julia: It's very good.
Brandon: It's like— you know the survival things that I've learned on Delta flights multiple times?
Amanda: We do, we do.
Brandon: Like, this is the Amanda's equivalent.
Amanda: Yeah.
Brandon: It's like how to set up a beach day.
Amanda: It's this, it's Riptide awareness. Hey, hey, you see what I did there?
Eric: There it is, there it is.
Brandon: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: And techniques for carrying bricks across the yard. Those are the things that I was tu— tutored in as a child.
Julia: Also packing a cooler.
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Brandon: Packing a cooler.
Amanda: I'm totally gonna start on packing, roughly checks watch, 2002 Denali, Suburban.
Eric: I'm glad, because we really hit a lot of this in Campaign Two and with the Camp-Paign. So I'm glad that we're finally rounded you out.
Amanda: Yes, yes. Thank you, thank you.
Brandon: There was much more of a gap of silence in the recording after Amanda said that. I just thought that it sounded like something broke, so I had to shorten it.
Julia: Yep.
Amanda: Thank you.
Brandon: And what did break was our brains.
Julia: Yeah. It's true. True fact.
Amanda: It's true. It's true. DM me, I'll tell you all about it. So lots of great questions about the Grove, but first, I want to turn to my fellow players, what— what did you think about this? We— we've heard about it. We've been getting to it for several episodes now, what stood out to you?
Julia: I hope that we hit all of the things that you wanted us to hit, Eric, because it seems like you had a lot of stuff that we could do in the Grove.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: But also— but also I think at that point, Cammie was so done with the stump.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: I think at one point I said out loud, I'm like, "This stump talks too much. Cammie has left."
Eric: That's fine. The stump was ended up being so funny. I just love being the stump. Much like as Julia said before, like Cammie is constantly being yelled at by people who want her to leave, but she's like, "I literally can't. You're asking me to do things I can't do." This stump really was the apotheosis of that, and I was really, really enjoying it, especially as the stump like boobily ran around of the—the Grove.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: This is very good.
Eric: I know. The stump then became like the campiest drag queen in my head, and I definitely enjoyed it.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: It was a real transformation between 29 and 30.
Eric: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amanda: Brandon, what stood out to you before you got, as Glass Cat Owl put it, "treeted" out of the Grove?
Brandon: I know, it's so good. Well done.
Eric: Tree— treeted, treeted. Yeah.
Brandon: There's like this interesting, like, sort of like push and pull where it's like, Eric, clearly meant for this to be like the Garden of Eden, where, like— you know, sort of a reverence situation. But also like we went through this harrowing an— like, annoying and death-defying thing to get into the Grove. And then the Grove was, like, guarded by this weird stump creature. Like, I don't know, it was— it was just— I think I was just sort of, like, taken aback by the whole situation, and I was mostly curious about, like, what fun features Eric was going to give, like in te— like—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: What Eric was going to, like add, and like which ones were meaningful, and which ones are just sort of, like, fun side things for us to, like, look at, you know?
Julia: Uh-hmm
Brandon: I don't know. Maybe they are all meaningful and I just—we just don't know yet, but—
Julia: Or maybe they were all just for funsies.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: We don't know.
Brandon: It's kind of a non-answer, but would you hold my bag for a second?
Amanda: No. Unless you're a drunk girl in a bathroom, no.
Eric: I never want you to do anything. Like, especially with these sorts of scenes where it's like, "Okay, this session is going to be like a bottle episode." It's going to be in this place. Like, do whatever you want.
Brandon: Right.
Eric: Yeah, I had some stuff. You certainly missed some stuff in there, but that's okay. It's not a huge deal. The more thing about this was, like, Umbi and Brandon share a don't tell me what to do streak.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And then, oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, consequences of my actions, uh-oh, uh-oh. So, like, that's just what happens. Like, I don't know. Like, I— I— I'm not doing anything to Umbi, it just fucking— that's what happened.
Amanda: It follows, yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Lovingly, thank God Cammie was there.
Amanda: Oh, yes.
Brandon: Well, I don't— like— I think, like, you're a 100% correct, and there was no other way that would have gone— could have gone down, because it's like—
Eric: Right.
Brandon: —what I'm thinking like— I don't really know what the act— in-game, like in character. I don't really know what actually this is. Is it truly the Garden of Eden? Like, is the Planter really— is this actually a holy site, or is it like— like, we're still discovering whether or not that's actually true, why— wouldn't we get in there, right?
Eric: Yeah, I— I 100% agree with that as well.
Brandon: Yeah. So Umbi isn't sure, and Umbi— you know, his people like to classically mull over things in their brains on long walks, so he hasn't had time to think about it yet. And then to, like—
Julia: True.
Brandon: I ran into this person who's sleeping, who like clearly needs some sort of assistance, or at least wants to, like, you know, like, wake him up and be like, "Yo, is this okay? Like, do you need help?" And who else am I going to ask, the fucking stump who talks in riddles? Like—
Eric: Good point, good point. Strong point, strong point.
Brandon: So, you know, I don't think there's any other way it could have possibly gone, but—
Eric: That— yeah. It— it's funny— when you're playing any game like this— like whether you're talking about a tabletop RPG or you're playing one that has dialogue choices, you're playing like Fallout or Mass Effects. You have to decide if you, as a player, are skeptical, then you have to decide if you, as a character, are skeptical.
Amanda & Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And then you have to decide what you're skeptical of. Because I think if you then become a skeptical character, who is— then you're just paranoid.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And then people in the world think of you as a paranoid person. But as the game, I will set up scenarios, of course, where you can't trust what's in front of you. Like, this is a social deduction game just as much as it is anything else. So that's just— it's the push and pull of all of that happening. Again, nothing you do is ever wrong.
Brandon: Right.
Eric: I'm— I'm only saying this because, lol, Umbi got treeted. But it's like, man, the stump, yes, if— on face value, the stump said don't do something, Umbi explicitly did it, and then consequences happened. But everything Brandon said is also a 100% true. Is this a holy site or is this a quasi-holy site, or is this a— a presentation of a holy site? Like, the theme park next to the Book Depository.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Right.
Eric: What is it, right?
Brandon: Exactly.
Eric: And then, like, fuck the riddles, you know?
Brandon: I will also say the stump did not explicitly say, "Don't wake up the— the monster." The stump just said—
Julia: Well, you didn't give them the opportunity to.
Eric: I don't— well, the stump also didn't want to tell you that— that Gloria turned into a monster.
Brandon: Well, but— this is my point, it's like the stump just said, "Let's be quiet." Not— didn't say why. So, like, that's sketch, you know? Like, if the stump was like, "Hey, heads up, like, you know, this person just happened. Blah, blah, blah. Don't wake her up." I would have been like, "Oh, chill. Like, we'll figure that out later."
Eric: I guess the stump also didn't want to tell you.
Brandon: I know.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: I think that's al— and also— so the stump doesn't trust you, either.
Brandon: Exactly.
Eric: I think is also kind of the situation.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah. In a lot of these situations, people are not 100% forthcoming with all the information.
Brandon: Right.
Eric: And that's just choices you make.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, you could've make— you could have made Insight Rolls, you could have poked around a little bit longer, but it— it's fine. Like, whatev— the choices are the choices. The funny thing was more that, like, immediately Umbi went— went, "What?" With a smug look on his face, tried to confront the stump, and then got yeeted. Like, that was funny. Like— like, that's what happens.
Julia: I'm just glad we didn't have to do a boss battle in the middle of the Grove. That's just my hot take.
Brandon: I don't think he was confronting the stump. I think he was trying to rescue the old—the old lady.
Amanda: And she did, in fact, get rescued. And we had a question here from Dominique about, "Eric, what was planned originally for Gloria, the worm woman? There's no way you knew about the lifting curse from Cammie, so what would have happened?"
Eric: Yeah. No, I did not know.
Julia: I will say, ever since I had the option to get removed curse, I've had it in my cards because—
Amanda: Yay.
Julia: —I saw it and I was like, "You know what Cammie would 100% have prepared because—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: "—of her own situation."
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Remove curse.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Hell yeah.
Eric: I think this is also the thing, though, is like this explains why the Divine Labyrinth is so annoyed at Cammie, because it's like—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: —"Oh, no, I don't like the smell. I— I— I remember this sound, this is when I had termites in my house three years ago." Like that's kind of the feeling, so I think maybe this is putting some of that in context a little bit. What would happen— yeah, I think what happened is— I had it t written down in my notes, but Gloria would have turned into the monster, and the monster would have been in the labyrinth as well.
Brandon: Hmm.
Amanda: Tough.
Eric: Is— is ultimately what would have happened. Gloria would awaken— woken up, turned into the weird mushroom thing, and then would have been another— another like Harvester in there. Would the monster and the Harvester be at odds? Maybe, but we didn't get to that point.
Julia: Ooh, that would have been fun, though, to have like monster V monster.
Brandon: Yeah, Godzilla versus King Kong.
Julia: We just have to escape to that way. Yeah.
Amanda: SavedMan wants to know on that note, "Eric, were you expecting the party to exit the Grove with two additional characters you now have to voice and keep track of?"
Julia: One's a dog to be fair.
Amanda: Well, well, he says, "I'm sure the puppy won't go far from Troy's bosom." Which is very funny.
Eric: Yes, I really want to talk about this, please.
Amanda: Yes, the rest of SavedMan's question actually never occurred to me, which is, "On a gameplay note, it seems like a lot of the GMs I listen to try and avoid having NPCs that are a part of the party. I figured that's because it's hard to play, but also seems like it could be a good way for a GM to nudge the story in specific directions. I'm wondering what your thoughts on it. And for the rest of the crew, how do you feel about the GM having a, quote, "sleeper agent" in your group?" It's a good question.
Julia: Yeah. I think it brings a little tension to the group, especially with Havana's current trajectory. It's very fun. But I also— this feels to me like when you are playing a RPG game, and you— or, like, for example, Baldur's Gate where you, like, meet a character, and then they're like, "Alright. Well, I live in your base camp now, so we can bring Gloria back to the Hold."
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: She doesn't have to necessarily come on missions with us or anything, but now she's, like, another character who's there.
Eric: Yeah, a 100%. This was the Cult of the Lamb stuff I was getting at, with you having a Hold in the first place. It's like, well, you're building a pirate crew, if you feel like adding more people to a pirate crew, then you're gonna have more NPCs. Like, it shouldn't be my choice. DM NPCs are something you're supposed to avoid at, like, all costs as a good DM. Like—
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Eric: —don't do it, you— then end up railroading or they end up being overpowered and your players rely on the DMPC.
Julia: It's not the case with Havana.
Eric: No, not with Ha— which is why I— I— your companions are certainly underpowered for this exact reason. Like, you don't want to lean on them too hard. But, yeah, no, I think it's— it's up to you. The best version of this, I think would be Balnor from the first campaign of Not Another D&D Podcast.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Where he was just like a dude who was there, who also like had a distinct personality from everyone else, like had his own backstory. He was, like, pulled out of time and space, and put into the party, which was really funny. And he also leveled up with the crew, which was— they did treat it with D& D leveling up, but that's what the whole Skill Tree is for. So, yeah, I think— I think that's what I'm trying to do. I don't want to nudge into any particular direction. It's more like look at all these tools you have at your disposal. If you want to bring them with you, that's fine. But, like, again, if you start collecting people like Pokemon, then I'm going to be like, "Okay, guys, let's— let's stop. Let's stop this."
Brandon: You don't want us to have an entire Greenfolk army, every time we go out on a mission?
Eric: I'd be like, "Okay, no, I don't want to go on adventures with you." And then just leave.
Amanda: Yeah. Like that's— you know, we're not antagonist here. We're building— we're building fun together, which involves tension. And so if, you know, if Eric were to have a DMPC, that was like pushing us to do something, that wouldn't be fun or tense for any of us.
Eric: Once again, I need to apologize that I made Havana follow the path, that's on me. And I shouldn't have pushed the game in that direction. That's on me.
Amanda: It's true.
Julia: You're right.
Eric: I shouldn't have done it.
Amanda: It's true.
Julia: You're absolutely right.
Eric: I shouldn't have done it. I'm a bad DM.
Brandon: I think, though, in— in our specific scenario, one, we have a 3-person party, which like is a— is a little bit short, so, like, we need a healer, like a true healer. I think— you know, I think— I don't know if Troy does, but two of us have healing stuff, but Troy does not. But we don't have a true healer just, you know, which is classic for us. And I— I think there's something like— when you're a player— and maybe— maybe— tell me if you guys feel differently, but like when you're a player, you're sort of like looking to the GM to— to make the thing move, like the story move and, like— like figure out what sort of emotional impact your characters go through. Like you're less looking to your other players because you're like on the same couch with them. So a DM NPC that's underpowered, like, you know, that doesn't really affect the actual life trajectory of the— of the party, but is there to point out like, "Hey, you remember when player A did something shitty to player B? Deal with that. You know what I mean?
Eric: I guess I don't want— but like, I don't want a character to do that. That's what I'm saying. It's like I want you to talk to the story. Don't talk to Havana about that, right?
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: That's what I don't want them to be there for.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Eric: Like— be like, "Havana, solve my problems." Then Havana's like, "No. What? No. Go away."
Brandon: Well, it's not solve my problem. It's just like— it's— and I'm not saying you're doing this. I'm just saying like, in general, I think it could be useful. It doesn't have to be someone on your party. It could be a shopkeep, you know? But, like, you know, someone to point out like the— the interpersonal stuff between players is sometimes useful, because you sort of get, like, blinders on when you're a player, in my opinion, at least.
Amanda: I think in our case, that is the audience. Like, all of the—
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: —you know, the people kind of identifying potential tensions, things that could be happening, you know? Like, we've so many questions about, like, what are you going to do about Havana? Just as a representative example, you know, Sebolicious is like, "What— like, what— what are you going to do? Like, if you— even if you kill him, then probably Audrey is going to bring it back, and he knows all about you guys." Like there's— you know, there are people watching, and asking, and listening. And for me, when I feel tempted to, like, let something slide, I'd be like, "Let me worry about that later." There are— you know, there are people watching the threads that we are dropping versus the ones that we're picking up. Maybe in the home game that's different. Again, all my experience has been here on a microphone with people listening. But that's— that's not like a danger that I— I feel we're sort of in front of.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. I think the listener reaction to Havana is really interesting, because again, my perspective is always, like, Cammie is actively trying to see the best in everyone, and is not going to, like, do anything to Havana. Unless it is explicitly stated that, like, Havana is trying to kill them, or Havana has taken an action and is not going to feel remorse of any kind about it.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: And I think that is why Cammie's like so not chill about it, but it's not like starting direct conflict about it. You know what I mean?
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: I actually felt very similarly, and LiveinColor said, "If the Grove makes you tell the truth, why didn't no one make Havana not lie about the salt circle?" And the answer is because Troy didn't want to force the issue. Troy wanted to give Havana an opportunity to say something, wanted to gather data on his own to have a suspicion or not. But saying to Havana, you know, "Did you betray us?" Means telling Havana that we thought he might betray us.
Eric: Right.
Amanda: And if that's not true, that sucks.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: And so it's very similar.
Julia: Imagine having that conversation with a friend in real life—
Brandon: In real life, I was gonna say. Yeah.
Julia: —being like, "Did you steal from me?
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: And then that person's like, "Why would you think I—"
Amanda: "What the fuck?"
Julia: "—stole from you? Why do you think that's something that I would even do?"
Brandon: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: That's such a trope, too, I mean, for all things where you tell the truth. It's like, "Yeah, why would you ask me that and look offended?" Is a classic choice to make— to say when you're being held on— on gunpoint like that.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah.
Amanda: But is there more you want to say, Eric, about the DMPC of it all?
Eric: No, I— yeah. It's— I've been thinking about this a lot because I've been playing a lot of first-person action RPGs now that I have PS5. I've played Spider-Man 2 and God of War: Ragnarok. And the similarity between an actual play and a AAA single-player RPG is very, very, very similar. And here's a great example, when you're playing God of War: Ragnarok, this was a notorious thing from a few years ago, so this is not a spoi— this is not a spoiler in any way. This probably came up a lot now— I'm playing it now. You might notice that in-- when you need to find something for a puzzle, which has very— I— I don't like the puzzles of God of War: Ragnarok, they're very finicky. But, like, shit is yellow. Like, a— of a set of stairs, or a gear, or a ladder, that's yellow, right? And that is something that is in-game designed to tell you to look at this. It's very subtle, and the game itself is trying to push you forward. There was another thing that happens, which is when if you don't get a puzzle quick enough, your companion, your son, or this guy, or Mimir, who is a head on a rope, he's like, "Oh, have you thought about this?" That's the— what DMPC is. People fucking hate it—
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: Hmm.
Eric: —when characters go, "Hey, have you thought about this?"
Brandon: Yes.
Eric: And that's if the DMPC did that you would be, like, either lean on it too hard or dis— or be— or go shut up, because the DMPC is always going to be lower status than the PC, right? And that's what I'm trying to do, is like I would much rather let the game design and the details, and you asking Eric questions, be— that— because that's how you play the game, not a DMPC being like, "Hey, have you thought about this?" It's different— closer for what Brandon saying of like, a D— a character being like, "Hey, you guys have a lot of fucking tension. Can you deal with it?"
Brandon: Yeah, exactly.
Eric: "Can you deal with that right now?" Which is what I did with Harold.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: And so that's fair for interpersonal things that PCs— also like good players don't want inter-party conflict.
Brandon: Right.
Eric: Like, that's fair.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: So a— a NPC giving you permission to do that is fair. But it's like in terms of story, or plot, or puzzle solving, I would much rather you talk to Eric, or find the yellow ladder than a DMPC saying, "Hey, have you thought about this?"
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Same. Brandon, Amanda Maz had an interesting question for you. "Do you have tips for self-regulating when things go like the end of Episode 30 and your rolls are not cooperating?" I know we all— again, we laugh, we say classic, we say, "What the fuck is happening with you?" But do you want to talk at all about your experience in those moments?
Eric: That was like inside the Actors Studio where James Lipton is like, "Is Bart here? Could Bart— could Bart— could you bring Bart out?" You were like, "Brandon, are the bad rolls here? Can you bring the bad rolls out?”
Amanda: I'm— I'm inviting them. I'm inviting in.
Eric: Can the bad rolls come to the table?
Brandon: I mean, I think it's— it's helpful if you're a player or a DM to be like, "Yeah, that was a tight idea. I wish it would have worked. I'm so sorry." Or like not even sorry.
Amanda: Hmm.
Brandon: Or just like, "Man"— like say, "That was a cool idea and a good thought." That's what matters. Doesn't matter if it actually happens or not. But it's like if you spend some—
Eric: Yeah.
Brandon: —time thinking up a fun, interesting, you know, unique thing to do, if that then fails— you don't care if it fails or not. You just want to be like, "Yeah, that was a cool idea, man." You know?
Eric: There are things you need to give people. That's why I use powers so much. Like, hey, you can just do this. So the whole thing about Umbi getting yeeted and then using the—
Brandon: Slow Fall.
Eric: —his big hat to—
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: —fly down and see more of the labyrinth to get a point. Like, yeah, there you go, do it. Like I'm— "Yes, that's a great idea to give the point." The problem was you did it again, and then you failed the roll. Like, the second time, you gotta roll for it, but the first time, I'm not gonna make you roll on that.
Brandon: Yeah, yeah.
Amanda: True, true.
Brandon: But otherwise, the tip is go to some anger management classes, really learn how to mediate the wellspring within yourself about failure.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: It helps to do five years of podcast where you roll badly every time.
Amanda: True.
Eric: Fair. Fair, fair, fair. True.
Amanda: Let's talk about the puppies, guys. Laura wants to know, "If each of you got one of the pups, what kind would it be, and what would you name it?" And Katja wants to know, "Eric, why specifically did you want Troy to have the pumpkin puppy?" I know the answer, but let's Katja know. "Was it vibes or do they all have different powers?"
Eric: It was the fall and I wanted you to have the pumpkin— the pumpkin puppy was the one I came up with first. I don't know.
Amanda: Thanks.
Eric: I thought it was nice.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Julia, Brandon, who stood out to you?
Brandon: Straw puppy.
Julia: That's adorable. I— also shout-out to my cattail puppy.
Brandon: Hmm.
Julia: I thought that was really cute.
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Eric: That was cute. I love that.
Amanda: Too cute, dude.
Eric: There were also other opportunities. You could have come up with anything, anything that would have fit and you could have had a puppy, but I— you gave it to me, so I gave you the one that I came up with first.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Can I say something first?
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Hey, this is a tip for all you DMs out there, when someone rolls a one, put in an intrusive thought in the character's head.
Julia: It's true. Don't have to use the spell.
Eric: It's not a failure. It's— it's— you're not making them poop themselves, and they don't have to do anything about that thought, but they are going to start thinking about that thought, aren't they?
Amanda: They really are. And it— this was— like listen, I— I also think Episode 30 was an all-timer Join the Party, but also I spent the entire thing fucking around and, like, screaming about homophones, so I— I feel like I can't judge. And on the topic, Kwall101995 said, "Who's going to tell Troy that the bow of a ship and a crossbow, the bow and the crossbow are spelled the same?" But I also want to know, why don't we have enough words that there's one of each? It— it makes no sense at all.
Eric: So funny.
Amanda: It makes me laugh.
Eric: It's so— I forgot that you led with that. That was the first thing in the episode.
Amanda: Yeah, we started recording, and I said, "Shut up. I got this."
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: It just— it just came to me. Because I'm so excited to get into this puppy more, haven't named them, got some good suggestions. We'll see what happens. And, you know, normally, I— I shout-out the kind of listener interaction I want to see more of in the world. And when you guys DM me on Instagram about— stuff about work, I'm like— it can be a little tough, but you know, that's— that's me being a semi-public figure. This is an iconic interaction I would never change for the world. This is demohaha, who said on Instagram— I woke up to two Instagram messages. Okay? They were sent 25 minutes apart. First, "BS. Eric wouldn't give you a new Oatcake. 25 minutes later, "I was too quick to judge."
Eric: So fucking good.
Brandon: So good.
Amanda: You'll love to see it. You'll love to see it. Absolutely iconic. Listen, I— I don't know. Is this the longest con of all time, to get puppies in— in all three of my major campaigns? Who can say?
Eric: I just need to say, it took a 5% roll and a funny intrusive thought, and also getting and making it happen for this to happen.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Anyone can get a puppy. There was a puppy party in the Grove. Of course, there was. That's what it was there for.
Brandon: Speaking of, did you have that plan, or was that just like a fun thing you did on the spot?
Eric: The puppy party?
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, I planned that one, yeah.
Brandon: Nice.
Eric: Everything that you interacted with was like there in the— in the Grove. Yeah, I wrote it up.
Brandon: Nice. Nice.
Amanda: So good.
Eric: And all— and the stuff that you didn't interact was in— was in the Grove as well.
Amanda: No, Eric, I want to know.
Eric: Well, sorry.
Amanda: What was there?
Julia: You'll tell us later? You'll tell us after we're done?
Eric: Maybe I'll tell— maybe I'll tell you. If it ever comes up, I'll— I'll let you know.
Julia: Okay.
Eric: Sorry. Sorry.
Amanda: No, but there's so much here. Julia, anything that you're, like, excited or nervous about re: Gloria? I thought it was such a touching, and cool, and lovely scene. I was just watching it like a movie. And you know, we'll see kind of how Gloria does in the episodes to come. But anything you want to share?
Julia: I'm very curious to learn more about her, the fact that she's like an ancient hero. I want to know like how she got to the labyrinth, why she's there, why she got cursed, how she got cursed. I want— I just want to know all of her backstory. Because you know me, like I'm— I'm an ancient Greek bitch, so I really want—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: —to hear like what her parallels are, and like, you know—
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Julia: —who I can relate her to.
Amanda: No, I'm— I'm excited as well. And actually, Julia, one more question, before we get into some bigger game questions and some who can say is also from— from Amanda Maz, "Does Cammie consider themself cursed?" You answered this a few ways to a few different people, but I wanted to ask directly.
Julia: I don't think Cammie sees her powers as a curse, but I think she does also understand that— like that is how people perceive her, which is part of a curse, in general.
Amanda: Cool.
Julia: And so it's— it's a yes and no. Cammie doesn't think of herself as cursed, but understands that that's the perception that most people see her as.
Amanda: True, true.
Brandon: Same.
Eric: Same. Me, too, personally.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: From Hastor, Prince In Yellow, "Is it possible the Waterer might be an antagonist? It seems to me that the Cascade could be a direct result of the Waterer acting as a Vanguard or something over Verda Stello. Maybe it just got tired of doing the Cascade thing, and like left?" I thought this was such a fascinating guess and sort of insight into, like, the Pantheon of Verda Stello.
Brandon: Yeah.
Julia: It's a cool world-building thing. And the idea that like maybe— I don't read that as antagonistic, I read that as maybe there's conflict in the Pantheon that we don't know about.
Brandon: Hmm.
Amanda: Very, very interesting.
Eric: Seems neat.
Brandon: This is the question I have, it's like before this, we didn't have any clue that there might be a Pantheon, right? It was just the Planter?
Julia: Uh-hmm. Yep.
Eric: Yep.
Brandon: Okay. Cool. Okay.
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: Yeah, no, that was a big revelation.
Julia: It's also really interesting because, like, just from like a religious perspective, there is oftentimes like this idea of going from Polytheism to Monotheism as time goes on.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Julia: And the fact that the labyrinth is so much older, like it's older than the Cascade drying up, or at least this time around—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: —because there's implications that—
Eric: Correct.
Julia: —the Cascade has dried up before. The fact that there's something called the Waterer that Cammie, as a former religious devotee of the path, had never heard of. It kind of implies this idea of maybe the Pantheon has changed since the last time the Cascade dried up.
Brandon: I didn't put that together until just now of like when— I think it was you, Julia, asked like, how did Gloria get here if the Cascade wasn't dried up? And Eric was like, "Huge amounts of skill?" I thought you were just trying to cover up like an inconsistency, but no, I think—
Julia: No. No.
Eric: No, that shit is real. Gloria—
Brandon: Okay.
Eric: —Gloria got in there before the Cascade dried up, straight up.
Brandon: Or— or at another cycle of the drying up previously.
Julia: Uh-hmm. Because we know that they have the drought stones, so—
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: Uh-hmm. Fascinating.
Julia: Who can say?
Eric: Seems cool.
Amanda: Actually, Brandon—
Eric: What a— what an interesting world that's been created.
Amanda: And actually, Brandon, from AmNotaGoldfish relevant, "Is Umbi so old because he—he's the umbilical cord of Verda Stello?"
Julia: Boo.
Brandon: Do not boo this man, Julia.
Julia: I'm boo-ing it.
Amanda: Listen, we got—
Eric: Boo this goldfish.
Amanda: —we got some Umbi Golden Bachelor fan art, so I— I can retire. Absolutely incredible.
Brandon: Oh, yeah. I wanted to say shout-out— I think it's Ginger Mae Art. Shout-out for the art of Umbi as a golden bachelor. Jesus Christ.
Julia: Incredible. So good, yeah.
Brandon: It gave me lots of good— good feels.
Amanda: Well, we have some chunky folks lining up to spoil the plank, but first, Moss, A Sentient Rock has asked some incredible questions about just the world of Verda Stello lately. So I just— I want to just sort of do a sprinkling of these.
Eric: I kinda don't even want to answer these questions. I kind of like them on their own as questions.
Julia: Just like for—
Eric: It's just like, wow, who can say? Who knows?
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Alright. Here are the— here are the questions from— from Moss, A Sentient Rock. "What is the Verda Stello version of the IKEA meatballs, and why are they overrated?" I want to like hit a gong every time I read one of these.
Amanda: Hey, Julia, hey, Julia, thank you.
Julia: I'll see what I can do.
Eric: "When was the last— when was the last time everyone had a good cry?" Gong. "Can Greenfolk use their own body as an instrument? What weird bands and cults have happened because of that?"
Amanda: Some, I'm sure.
Julia: Cool.
Eric: "If the answer is yes, here's another thought. If the crew had to build a ship from scratch, how badly would it go, and why would it go wrong?"
Brandon: Rude.
Amanda: I know. Moss' question is like— Moss also asked a bunch of these like, "Hey, sorry, I was on a train across Europe all night. Here's the best I got." And then it was like 25 incredibly potent questions.
Eric: Moss was like, "I went to IKEA and then I studied for 48 hours. Here's some questions."
Amanda: "I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Here you go." Like, Moss, you're doing great. You're doing great, bud.
Eric: "Which Taylor Swift Era is each character, and what would they have done to get tickets in our world?"
Amanda: Troy would have sold sperm without—
Julia: Asking.
Amanda: —without asking any questions. Troy would have—would have absolutely sold some bodily fluids.
Brandon: I mean, Umbi would have done murder. He's a fucking pirate.
Eric: Yeah. "And what's the outer space situation like, and how much do Greenfolk know about it?" I'm like, "Goddamn, I gotta come up with space.”
Brandon: Yeah. It's a great question.
Amanda: It's a great question.
Julia: Uh-hmm. You know Hothouse is making the rocket somewhere, you know it.
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Eric: I promise you, unlike the Marvel Cinematic Universe, I will not be going to space.
Amanda: Thank you, thank you.
Julia: But what about the Fast and Furious Cinematic Universe?
Eric: Oh. Oh. Okay, then we'll only roughly go to space.
Julia: Okay.
Eric: We'll suggest going to space.
Julia: Can we imply that Ludacris might die in space?
Eric: That's fine. Yeah.
Amanda: That's good.
Eric: Like Red Bull— like one of those guys who work for Red Bull who jumps from, like, the stratosphere and he almost dies.
Amanda: Yeah.
Brandon: He likes Bob Gardner. Put some respect on his name, Eric.
Eric: Wow. What a pull, Brandon.
Julia: Wow.
Amanda: Damn.
Eric: Absolute pull.
Brandon: I think that was his name.
Eric: Is that something you saw on— Brandon, what Delta flight were you on when you found that out?
Julia: There's only one that I want to answer— or rather that I want you guys to answer, which is, what is everyone's favorite tea that Cammie makes them?
Amanda: The one from her hands.
Julia: Aw.
Eric: Wow.
Amanda: Yeah.
Brandon: What's not weird?
Julia: It's all weird.
Brandon: You know, the first thing that came to my mind, Julia, was Cammie's eyelashes.
Amanda: Oh.
Julia: Great, great.
Amanda: Rare.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: I like that.
Julia: It's like cat whiskers.
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: I'm gonna say Cammie's butt. Nice, what up.
Amanda: Oh, I know.
Eric: Nice.
Julia: It's a hot tea, if you know what I mean.
Eric: Nice. Let's go.
Amanda: Amazing. Alright. Well, thank you, Moss. Doing the Lord's work, we appreciate you. And here we go. Are you all ready to spoil the plank?
Brandon: Yar!
Julia: Argh!
Brandon: Argh!
Amanda: Okay. Here's from EepyFella, "Will Panorama come back? Will they be smited? Asking for a friend."
Julia: Fair, fair.
Eric: Well, if it's for a friend, I'll tell you explicitly right now.
Amanda: Dr. Spurgeon, "For real, would Troy have left Havana behind or the puppy?" I'm putting this in— in here because I mean, I have an answer in my brain, but for now, who can say?
Brandon: Yeah.
Eric: I know I'm touching on this right at the end of the episode, but I didn't want to say. It's like I said this at some point in the Slack, but I'm like— the funny part about learning about like the Torah from Christians is the Christian— is that people are like, "Wow. God was such a dick in the Old Testament, but now he's like a cool guy who's nice to people in the New Testament. But I'm like, "No, dawg. God does fucking rock. Absolutely metal as— metal as fuck is the Torah.' So it's like when— when Jacob wrestles that angel and like literally wrestles him, I find that so incredibly funny and interesting that like it literally happened. They literally were like Greco-Roman wrestling, and then Plato came in, and tapped— and tapped out. And like I just— I find that so funny. So that's kind of how I feel like the Planter has been during the labyrinth. Like a— almo— not a person in the way that like the Greek gods or people, or have wants and needs, and get angry, and are vain and stuff. But like, at least, will like get in your face about it a little bit.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: And— and will figure out ways to get in your face, which is the whole point of like the treating of the— of the tree eating. If you fuck with the Planter's Grove, something's gonna happen to you.
Julia: Right.
Eric: And anything of that was kind of— like the kind of god that I like the Plant— that I kind of like the Planter to be.
Julia: The fuck around and find out God.
Eric: The fuck around out and find out God. Yeah, for sure. Which is so much more interesting when that's like the only one you have instead of a pant— like only one of the gods of the Pantheon is the fuck around and find out. Or like the god of tricks or something.
Brandon: Yeah. I imagine the angel wres— before he wrestled that guy, being like, "Hey, hold my bag." And then—
Julia: Goddamn it.
Eric: And Jacob was like, "I'm not taking the bag."
Amanda: Yeah, but Amanda drunk in the bathroom is like, "Whatever you need, sweetie. Break up with him."
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Also from Dr. Spurgeon we have, "Are all the keys food? Are we making stew potato gaze, spicy pepper hurts, sky soup water?" Shrug—
Brandon: I love this idea.
Amanda: A lot of— I know, it's very cool. It's very cool. Also, we have some theories about like the five different senses, so keep them coming, folks. It helps me a lot.
Eric: Yeah.
Brandon: Yeah, I know right?
Amanda: She also asked, "Who the puppies belong to?"
Eric: This is a puppy party in the Grove, folks. Don't worry about it.
Julia: Why did the puppies have to belong to anyone? They're puppies.
Amanda: Maybe it's God, but Troy will stand between God and the puppy.
Brandon: Can anyone really own a puppy? Can anyone really own a puppy, you know?
Amanda: Exactly.
Eric: But you can put the puppy on a leash and have it run around.
Amanda: "Would the world know that the salmon had been found? I don't trust that everyone has the same goals." Same, Michelle.
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Julia: Uh-hmm.
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: "And knowing that this key regrows, are there replica versions of the other keys out there, too?"
Brandon: Hmm.
Julia: I think you explicitly said that none of the other keys regrow the way that the key for a maze does.
Eric: I don't remember if I did.
Julia: You did.
Eric: Well— yeah.
Julia: You— as the stump.
Amanda: You did.
Julia: You didn't say it as Eric.
Amanda: Oh, as the stump, yeah.
Julia: You said it as a stump.
Eric: Oh, right. Yeah, the stump— yeah, the stump was like, "This one's special. It regrows."
Brandon: Yeah, but that doesn't mean there aren't other replica versions of some out there.
Amanda: Or holds.
Julia: Right, because we already saw that they're attempting to create replica versions—
Amanda: Uh-hmm.
Julia: —because of what we found in that Overstalk ship.
Eric: Uh-hmm.
Amanda: And then a number of great spoil the planks from Glass Cat Owl. So first, "Was the Planter’s desire to get Cammie out of the maze less to do with her alleged unholiness, and more due to the possibility that the nature of the maze might cause her curse to turn her into a monster like Gloria?"
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: Hmm. Not something I considered.
Brandon: Monster Julia, monster Julia, monster Julia!
Julia: That could be fun.
Eric: Hmm.
Amanda: Man, I don't want to see Julia wielding legendary reaction. What is that called? Is that what it is?
Julia: Legendary resistance.
Amanda: Yes, it's— yes.
Eric: Yeah. Legendary resistance, yeah.
Amanda: Nasty. Love it.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: And we got a number of great spoil the planks from Glass Cat Owl, starting with, "What did Gloria's full monster form look like?"
Eric: Oh, I can actually say this. Gloria was gonna be a giant weird mushroom person.
Julia: Cool. That's what I figured.
Brandon: Like in The Last of Us kind of situation?
Eric: Mo— even bigger and larger.
Brandon: Uh-hmm.
Eric: The comparison that I made was Plasmus that you might remember from Teen Titans, who also became a weird monster when this person woke up and was, like, awake. But, yeah, it would have been just like a terrifying— it would have been like a real scary monster, so then there would have been two different types of monsters following you around in the labyrinth.
Julia: Yeah, that would've been dope, though. I'm into that.
Amanda: Very scary.
Eric: Kind of like Godzilla, and she deserves the respect on her name.
Amanda: An incredible joke. Brandon, I'm gonna do that for the rest of my life. "What did Havana talk to his Jimjam about and was it her—"
Julia: What did he talk to her about?
Amanda: "And was it her cussing him out for betraying Cammie?"
Eric: Who can say?
Brandon: I think it was just like, "Jimjam, you didn't give me the full recipe. Like, you left on something. Can you please tell me the recipe for your pie?"
Eric: "I know I'm a doctor, Jimjam. I know. Men can be doctors."
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: And finally, "What would have happened if Cammie's healing herself in the Grove had been disrupted by holy energy or whatever Eric was rolling for? Would the spell have failed, or were there other negative consequences?"
Eric: Hmm, interesting.
Julia: Who can say?
Brandon: [sings Only Time] Who can say—
Amanda: Who can say?
Brandon: [sings Only Time] —what the answer is?
Eric: Interesting.
Julia: [sings Only Time] I certainly can't
Brandon: [sings Only Time] Only Eric can.
Eric: I was wondering so much like at that moment when Havana was like, "No, I can't heal you, sorry. I'm broken. This is out of or— the shake machine is out of order." And I was wonder— I was wondering so much about what Brandon and Havana were gonna do about it.
Amanda: Troy is a father now, so he— he can't focus on anything but the wiggling newborn in his jacket. Speaking of which, the puppy that I've been keeping in my windbreaker the whole time does need to go play.
Brandon: Yeah.
Amanda: So I'm gonna— I'm gonna get on out of here, folks.
Eric: Oh, no, the puppy is in the turkey again. Oh, no.
Julia: No!
Brandon: Oh, no!
Amanda: Yay!
Eric: No!
Brandon: Bye!
Julia: Later.
Eric: Bye.
Amanda: May your rolls trend ever upward.
[theme]